A Fourth Ultimate League??

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:46 am

Originally posted by Nevadaman:

Tom, If these are actual figures I have a problem with this! You're proposing a 90% payout to the 10 team league of last minute afterthoughts, but we who committed months ago are only getting 83%. Not right!!! Agree 100%

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:47 am

Let's see if we can get to 15 teams first. If we fall short we'll evaluate everything and come up with the right type of payout structure. So consider these numbers tentative for the time being. Once we officially decide what we're going to do we'll let you know. If you guys have some suggestions feel free to let us know.

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:19 am

[quote]If you guys have some suggestions feel free to let us know. [quote]

I think a equal prorated distribution is fair; HOWEVER, if you want to make it a little higher on the smaller league set up, I have no problem with that. If you do make the payout percentage a little higher for smaller league, you may want to offer if out to those who signed up first. (That would seem to make it fair IMHO!)

With that being said, I would still like to stay in 15 team league, regardless of smaller league payout percentage.

Thank you!

No Balls No Babies · Post by **No Balls No Babies** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:45 am

I think a equal prorated distribution is fair; HOWEVER, if you want to make it a little higher on the smaller league set up, I have no problem with that. If you do make the payout percentage a little higher for smaller league, you may want to offer if out to those who signed up first. (That would seem to make it fair IMHO!)I agree.

I am going to be part of a teledraft either way

that is why I was volunteering to switch to the smaller league. If LV and NY both have 15 teams and there are 10 teams left I would gladly play in the 10 team league. My two cents.

Top Dawg · Post by **Top Dawg** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:11 am

Originally posted by Nevadaman:

Tom, If these are actual figures I have a problem with this! You're proposing a 90% payout to the 10 team league of last minute afterthoughts, but we who committed months ago are only getting 83%. Not right!!! Your reply reminds me of a Bible story... It seems a group of workers that got the wages they agreed to get when hired were upset when those hired later in the day (and working fewer hours) got as much as they did for working all day. The land owner replied somehting like this "Are you not getting the wages you were promsed? What troubles you if others get more as long as you get what you were promised?"

Just throwing that in for fun...

By the way, if the small 10-11 team league manages to get a return of 150% I might be interested in joining....

Pete

[ March 05, 2007, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Top Dawg ]

poopy tooth · Post by **poopy tooth** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:54 am

Top Dawg -

That's why unions were formed!

Looks like we know who to blame!

[ March 05, 2007, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: poopy tooth ]

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:15 pm

Top Dawg, I stand 100% by my post. I think this is a bad business practice, because it will give people pause to enter early. Why commit early and be billed and get a worse deal? If there's a 90% league, I definitely want to be switched.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:32 pm

Everybody, let's not get too riled up, ok? We'll figure this out and we welcome your suggestions as to what you believe would be a fair payout if we go with a 10-team league. So let us know. Greg will be back tomorrow and we'll sit down and map a lot of this stuff out.

Sound good?

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:03 pm

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:

Everybody, let's not get too riled up, ok? We'll figure this out and we welcome your suggestions as to what you believe would be a fair payout if we go with a 10-team league. So let us know. Greg will be back tomorrow and we'll sit down and map a lot of this stuff out.

Sound good? Tom, for a 10-team league, I would suggest the following payout:

1st $25,000

2nd $11,000

3rd $5,000

Chameleon · Post by **Chameleon** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:46 am

One other thing I think you guys need to think about is the "branding" of your events. As a marketing guy, yes, I'm sensitive to the fact that your highest per player contribution margins come from those of us who step up and pay the crazy Ultimate fees.

That said, as the overall NFBC event grows, how do you want the Ultimate to be known? As an identical replica of the main event (i.e., 15 Teams, mixed 5x5, but private pay-out structure), or as a format where the player pay's their dough and gets lopped into a league structure depending on the number of sign-ups.

As I have said before, if you don't get to 45 players for the Ultimate draft, I think you should just concede the 3rd league for this year. And previous posts about late sign-ups are spot-on; there should be no incentive or disincentive to signing-up early (other than in this case, yes, signing-up early is actually advantageous b/c if you DON'T, you stand a chance of playing musical chairs without a place to "sit", so-to-speak).

Just my 2 cents...

KJ Duke · Post by **KJ Duke** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:45 am

Originally posted by TTBoy:

One other thing I think you guys need to think about is the "branding" of your events. As a marketing guy, yes, I'm sensitive to the fact that your highest per player contribution margins come from those of us who step up and pay the crazy Ultimate fees.

That said, as the overall NFBC event grows, how do you want the Ultimate to be known? As an identical replica of the main event (i.e., 15 Teams, mixed 5x5, but private pay-out structure), or as a format where the player pay's their dough and gets lopped into a league structure depending on the number of sign-ups.

As I have said before, if you don't get to 45 players for the Ultimate draft, I think you should just concede the 3rd league for this year. And previous posts about late sign-ups are spot-on; there should be no incentive or disincentive to signing-up early (other than in this case, yes, signing-up early is actually advantageous b/c if you DON'T, you stand a chance of playing musical chairs without a place to "sit", so-to-speak).

Just my 2 cents... The guys who were in early are guaranteed exactly what they signed up for, that is the incentive to sign up early.

If the guys that get in late end up being incentivized so another lge can get done, good for them. They also risk not getting into the lge. As an early signup, I could care less if there is an incentive, in fact, I would encourage it just to have more happy customers.

Likewise, none of the late signups are gonna be REQUIRED to compete if its a 10-tm lge. Greg, I'm certain, would ask those guys what they want to do and only go forward with those who agreed. Lots of complaining for nothing on this thread, imo.

[ March 06, 2007, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:52 am

Originally posted by MIAMI CANES:

hey tom or greg, i will probably do an ultimate from tampa but then i wouldnt do the 1250 on friday,or the 650 whatever let you know in a few days I just left you a voice message Frank. If you have any interest in the Ultimate Draft League on Friday, let me know via phone or e-mail. We got another signup today, so we're pushing towards 12 teams right now. Let me know when you can and we'll get this thing moving.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:54 am

Originally posted by No Balls No Babies:

Greg and Tom,

I have no problem being in a 10 or 12 team league. How would you breakdown the prize

money distribution in that setup? Brent, shoot me an e-mail if you want to do the 10 or 12 team more than the 15-team Ultimate. We have another owner who would gladly switch with you. Thanks.

The goal is to get to 12 teams with this third Ultimate Draft League. That would be sweet.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:00 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:

quote:Originally posted by Nevadaman:

Tom, If these are actual figures I have a problem with this! You're proposing a 90% payout to the 10 team league of last minute afterthoughts, but we who committed months ago are only getting 83%. Not right!!! Agree 100% [/QUOTE]Patience is a virtue my friends and that's all I'll say.

The goal is to see if there's interest in enough teams to create a 12-team Ultimate League, guys. To do that, we have to provide a fair enough payback for ANYONE to consider a $5,000 entry fee. That means paying a big first place prize and still giving meaningful paybacks to second and third place. I'm less worried about how much we make than trying to accommodate those owners who want to do this third Ultimate Draft League. You could have allowed us to build that momentum before worrying about the ACTUAL payouts.

If we get to 12 teams and pay back 83 percent, we could still keep first place at $30,000, second place at $12,500 and third place at $7,500. Maybe first needs a little more, but this is just off the top of my head.

We may have 11 teams now depending on a lot of factors. So this one is still on the back burner. Tom and I will keep burning the phone lines and see what happens before the end of this week. Stay tuned.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:01 am

Originally posted by Nevadaman:

Top Dawg, I stand 100% by my post. I think this is a bad business practice, because it will give people pause to enter early. Why commit early and be billed and get a worse deal? If there's a 90% league, I definitely want to be switched. Steve, give me a call if you want to switch. As I just said with Brent, someone would take you up on your offer. But right now I'm just trying to find another owner or two to get us to 12 teams. Time to burn the phone lines.

Nevadaman · Post by **Nevadaman** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:34 am

Greg, Your 12 team proposal is the same payout as the 15, which is perfect. I'm happy where I am unless you decide to do a 90% payout for some reason, but I suspect you will find the extra player making this thread a bit moot!

No Balls No Babies · Post by **No Balls No Babies** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:10 am

Greg

Just sent you an email to go ahead and switch me to the smaller league.

Thanks

Brent

FFBL23 · Post by **FFBL23** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:25 pm

Greg, you have me down as tentative and that's still what I am, I wanna see how this plays out over the next week. If it's 15 teams then I am 100%, but if it's less then I'm unsure until I see the number of teams and prize structure. Just wanted to clarify. Come on guys, let's get to 15 teams in the 3rd league!!!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:16 am

Okay, we added Frank Heron today and Sammy Zahler to this third Ultimate Draft League, but it looks like we lost Joseph Monaco. So we have 12 teams as of now, which would be a good league. We still have some tentative teams, but I'm calling and e-mailing everyone right now. I'll grab the list off the signup page and post it here soon, but if you're on the list and I haven't talked to you yet, let me know what you think of a 12-team league with these payouts:

1st - $30,000

2nd - $12,500

3rd - $7,500

That's three teams out of 12 making money and a payout of 83 percent. There would be a four-city phone hookup, but we'd handle this and have some fun. I'll grab the list now.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:23 am

Here's what we have right now for this third Ultimate Draft League. We have a 16th owner in Las Vegas who wants to do the Auction League, so that would allow Brent Grooms to move to the smaller draft league and one of the auction league members to move to the draft, which someone wants to do. But all of this is tentative for now:

1. Richard Kidd (NY)

2. Joseph Anello (NY)

3. Sammy Zahler (LV)

4. Derek Briggs (CHI)

5. Don Johnson (LV)

6. Kevin Kirves (tentative)

7. Chris Hill (tentative)

8. Albert Petit (tentative)

9. Shawn Johnson (NY)

10. Michael Pomponio (NY)

11. Brent Grooms (CHI)

12. Frank Heron (TAMPA)

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:35 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

Okay, we added Frank Heron today and Sammy Zahler to this third Ultimate Draft League, but it looks like we lost Joseph Monaco. So we have 12 teams as of now, which would be a good league. We still have some tentative teams, but I'm calling and e-mailing everyone right now. I'll grab the list off the signup page and post it here soon, but if you're on the list and I haven't talked to you yet, let me know what you think of a 12-team league with these payouts:

1st - $30,000

2nd - $12,500

3rd - $7,500

That's three teams out of 12 making money and a payout of 83 percent. There would be a four-city phone hookup, but we'd handle this and have some fun. I'll grab the list now. I know you'll appreciate this, Greg:

Agree 100%!

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:40 am

Greg, Ron Kraus mentioned that he might be interested awhile back. I think you can get two more with him to get to the full 15.

[ March 07, 2007, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: CC's Desperados ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:47 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:

Greg, Ron Kraus mentioned that he might be interested awile back. I think you can get two more with him to get to the full 15. Really??? Wow, I'll call him.