July Deadline Trades

[Edwards Kings]

Kazmir to Houston.

First trade of many?

[Red Sox Nation-]

I'm most interested in what the Met's do. I can see their fans lining up at Citi with pitch forks if they don't add some offense.

Philly will also be fascinating. (Hamels/Papelbon) We've waited so long on both. They may wanna come down a little bit from your best 7 prospects and first 2 newborns on Hamels....

[Bronx Yankees]

Wouldn't it be something if the Mets failed to get a bat and the Phillies failed to trade Hamels and Paps? Somehow it would be fitting.

I'm curious to see what the Reds do. Between Cueto, Bruce, Leake, etc., they have some pieces that really can help a few teams. Should be interesting. With Kazmir and Ramirez being traded today, it may spur more activity over the next few days.

Mike

[DOUGHBOYS]

The Mets have a conumdrum. They need eight hitters. No matter what they do, it won't be enough.
Duda is the 2013 Duda.
Daniel Murphy is being outhit by David Murphy.
Wright is not coming back.
Flores hasn't hit a home run in his last 128 at bats.
Cuddyer is DL bound (The Mets just never admit such things till need be.....or even later)
Lagares is Franklin Gutierrez. A wonderful fielder. Sporadic hitter.
D'Arnaud is always coming back from injury.
Granderson is a leadoff hitter as Joc Pederson is a leadoff hitter.
The difference being that the Dodgers have hitters behind him.

I'm sorry, but if I'm the Mets, I'd stand pat and let the fans howl.
I'm guessing they'll get a cheap hitter for one of their prospects (not a major pitcher) just to appease their fan base.
The Mets are propped up by their Starters and Familia on the back end this year.
They have made hay in beating the Braves, Marlins, and Phils to a pulp at home to the tune of a 16-3 record.
The good teams always find ways to beat the Mets. 15-29 against teams with winning records.
Simply, they do not have the goods to win a pennant (just my opinion, Mets fans)
I wouldn't trade Montero, Matz, or any of their Big 3 Starters.
They can trade Gee, Colon, or minor prospects, but the truth is that they need too much help to contend down the stretch.
They are not a Jay Bruce or Mark Trumbo or even Hanley Ramirez away from a pennant.
I would not want to extend Harvey, Syndergaard, and deGrom more than need be this year. Fooling themselves into thinking they have a real chance could hurt the one resource that could possibly net future pennants.
Their arms.

The Phillies are in the hands of somebody whose only job was to get the most in trade for his veterans this year.
Instead, he signs Francouer (a nice story) Grady Sizemore, and 14 pitchers who everybody thought had retired.
And they threw like it.
He tells all that Utley has lost his starting job.
What great salesmanship!
Hey! Does anybody want a 2b that can't even start for the Phillies?
AND, he did the same with Ryan Howard before spring training!
Ruben is rye.
Personally, I would have given Utley to the Yankees for a bag of beans. That park could resurrect his swing and it'd be a nice 'thank you' to Utley for his years in a Phils uniform.

Then, he lets a disinterested Hamels get torched while his trade value slowly decreases because of it.
Brilliant!
Papelbon has a contract that keeps his own interest, but is repelling to contending teams.
Amaro, oblivious, thinks he'll get riches at the deadline for both.
Ugh.
The Phillies vets are Hamel's Heroes, trapped in Stalag 17 or Citizens Bank Park, all making fun of Amaro doing Colonel Klink.
Their ownership doing the Schultz line, "I SEE NOTHING, NOTHING!!!"
Again, why is he still there?
The Phils are 25th in attendance in 2015 averaging 24,000 fans a game.
Just three years ago, they were number ONE in attendance with 44,000 fans per game.
Solidly clarifying that the Phillies fan base is a lot smarter than the ownership who retain a GM that keeps 20,000 asses PER GAME, away from the seats at Citizens Bank Park.
I salute their fans.
Their ownership should be forced to endure 20,000 paper cuts to remind them that 20,000 is a helluva large number.

[Bronx Yankees]

The Mets have a conumdrum. They need eight hitters. No matter what they do, it won't be enough.
Duda is the 2013 Duda.
Daniel Murphy is being outhit by David Murphy.
Wright is not coming back.
Flores hasn't hit a home run in his last 128 at bats.
Cuddyer is DL bound (The Mets just never admit such things till need be.....or even later)
Lagares is Franklin Gutierrez. A wonderful fielder. Sporadic hitter.
D'Arnaud is always coming back from injury.
Granderson is a leadoff hitter as Joc Pederson is a leadoff hitter.
The difference being that the Dodgers have hitters behind him.

I'm sorry, but if I'm the Mets, I'd stand pat and let the fans howl.
I'm guessing they'll get a cheap hitter for one of their prospects (not a major pitcher) just to appease their fan base.
The Mets are propped up by their Starters and Familia on the back end this year.
They have made hay in beating the Braves, Marlins, and Phils to a pulp at home to the tune of a 16-3 record.
The good teams always find ways to beat the Mets. 15-29 against teams with winning records.
Simply, they do not have the goods to win a pennant (just my opinion, Mets fans)
I wouldn't trade Montero, Matz, or any of their Big 3 Starters.
They can trade Gee, Colon, or minor prospects, but the truth is that they need too much help to contend down the stretch.
They are not a Jay Bruce or Mark Trumbo or even Hanley Ramirez away from a pennant.
I would not want to extend Harvey, Syndergaard, and deGrom more than need be this year. Fooling themselves into thinking they have a real chance could hurt the one resource that could possibly net future pennants.
Their arms.

Dan - I disagree with you on this one. I think the Mets should be trading pitching for hitting.

Last night, the Mets put out what has to be a historically bad lineup:
Granderson
Tejada
Flores
Mayberry
Campbell
Duda
Lagares
Recker
Colon

Their 4th and 5th hitters are batting .165 and .176, respectively. Of course, they got shut out again. (It may have been one of the few times I was surprised when a pitcher did not throw a no-hitter.)

Notwithstanding their putrid offense, the Mets are in the play-off hunt. With maybe two more good bats (and some improved hitting from Duda, Flores and Murphy), they would have a chance to overtake the Nationals, or possibly get in position for the final wildcard. Yes, the Mets are not a great team, and you could say that they lack the talent to win the World Series. However, nowadays, I think if you can get to the play-offs, anything can happen. Look what the Giants did last year. While they admittedly had a better offense than the Mets, it was not a particularly strong or scary offense. They had some timely hitting and one of the best (if not the best) play-off pitching performances by Bumgarner. The Mets have several starting pitchers that are at least capable of dominating in the play-offs. No matter how weak the offense, I wouldn't think many teams would want to face the Mets rotation in a short series.

Also, the Mets' chance to win is now. The Nationals are/have been without Rendon, Zimmerman, Werth, Span, Strasburg, etc. If the Mets wait until next year, the Nationals might be a much-stronger team. After seeing Wild Card teams win the World Series, I think teams like the Mets should go for it when they have the chance. I also don't think they need to trade a huge arm. Wouldn't Aramis Ramirez have been an improvement over Campbell? Wouldn't Marlon Byrd be an improvement over Mayberry? The Reds probably would sell Jay Bruce for something less than one of the Mets top arms. It wouldn't take much to have Ben Revere leading off and stealing bases for the team. Zobrist might be more pricey, but he could be had for solid minor league prospects and not deGrom, Harvey, Syndergaard, Matz, Wheeler, etc. Yes, the Mets might need to sell off one of the big starters if they want an all-star caliber bat or multiple hitters. For the right deal, that might be a deal worth doing. (It doesn't matter how good their pitching is if they can't score runs.) Short of that, there does seem to be a number of hitters that could be had for far less, and who would represent big upgrades compared to the crap they are sending up to the plate these days. I just feel like they are wasting a fantastic starting rotation (and a surprisingly-good closer) by giving them virtually no shot to win.

Mike

[Donacion]

I went to a Las Vegas 51's game Tuesday nite. They are the Mets AAA team. The area behind home plate had scouts from the Nationals, Padres, Houston, Rangers, A's and a number of others that had laptops and radar guns. From a hitting standpoint there is nothing on the offensive side that would be of help to the Mets. The cleanup hitter was 35 year old Brooks Conrad. The opponent was Fresno the Astros AAA team it could the scouts were looking at the Astros prospects. Unless the Conforto rumors are true ( he is not in AAA) there is no help offensively on their AAA roster that I could see for the Mets.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Read what you wrote, Mike. You're making my point.
You're giving then Bruce, Byrd, and Revere and hoping for upticks from Duda, Murphy, and Flores to be ok offensively.



It doesn't make a difference anyway. The Mets say they''ll spend money to improve, but do not.
I think they'll make a minimal move to appease fans.
A Marlon Byrd type sounds about right.
Washington loses Zimmerman, Desmond, and I believe Fister next year.
But you're right, they'll still becontenders because they'll spend the money to replenish.

Comparing the Giants and Mets is not fair to the Mets. The Giants are a cohesive team with leadership up the wazoo from top to bottom. The Mets have not had that for a long time.

[Bronx Yankees]

Comparing the Giants and Mets is not fair to the Mets. The Giants are a cohesive team with leadership up the wazoo from top to bottom. The Mets have not had that for a long time.

Certainly agree with you on that one!

I guess my point was that without even trading a big arm, the Mets probably could trade their way to a lineup like the following:

Revere, CF
Murphy, 3B
Duda, 1B
Bruce, RF
d'Arnaud, C (if back soon)
Cuddyer, LF (when back)
Flores, 2B
Tejada, SS

Byrd could be had. How much would it cost to rent Justin Upton for two months? If you add other hitters, you could maybe keep Lagares in CF for his defense.

No, it still is not a great lineup. But, with some aggressiveness, some willingness to spend (and perhaps that is the real problem), and some willingness to trade some prospects, the Mets could field a decent hitting lineup which, when combined with dominant starting pitching and a solid closer, could make a run toward - and in - the play-offs. There's no guarantees, of course, but given the Nationals' injuries, the division is there for the taking. Hell, the Mets were one bad Parnell performance from cutting the lead to one game. Imagine if they had some hitting. (I also think adding a few bats would help the existing bats; take some pressure of Duda; perhaps give some guys better pitches to hit.)

Sadly, I think we'll never know, because I either expect the Mets to stand pat, or to make only a token trade so as to appear as if they care about their fans.

Mike

[DOUGHBOYS]

Revere, CF
Murphy, 3B
Duda, 1B
Bruce, RF
d'Arnaud, C (if back soon)
Cuddyer, LF (when back)
Flores, 2B
Tejada, SS

Any good lefty would mow this lineup down, but I get your point.

I think we both agree that the Mets will make a token move and not get both Bruce and Revere anyway.

d'Arnaud is to the Mets as he is to his wife when before he leaves for the convenience store.
Be back soon.
He is the Michael Saunders of catchers.

As for Justin Upton, the Mets just don't think that way.
I would not be surprised if they got his brother though.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Mets should try and get bats without giving up any of the good arms. If they can great, if cannot be worked out then so be it. But they certainly should try. We have a very short sample size of baseball left this season. And the playoffs are an even shorter sample size. The goal is to win if you are in a position to win. They are. They should obviously try and improve the lineup. Not sure how this is even a debate. Anyone can win short baseball series in the playoffs. Especially if you have awesome pitching.

[DOUGHBOYS]

The Mets have one less loss than the Tigers.
Two less than the Indians.
Three less than the Braves in their own division.
These are all 'sellers'.
What makes the Mets a contender over these teams?

I coud be wrong, I often am, but the Mets being competitive this year does not make them real contenders.
Sure, they should make a move to remain competitive and give their fans hope.
If only to appease their fans.
But the reality is that they are only three games better than the Atlanta Braves.

[DOUGHBOYS]

They are bringing up Conforto today.
That may be 'their move'....

[Edwards Kings]

Obviously I follow the Braves closer than any other team and at times just about every player on the current big league roster has been named as a possibility to be traded:

Johnson, C. (if the Braves eat most of his remaining salary)
Johnson, K.
Johnson, J. (who needs a closer?)
Maybin
Pierzynski (though I do not see this as the Braves have certainly soured on Bethancourt)
Uribe
Peterson (though his troubles of late as in 4 for his last 27 has taken the shine off of him)

Now today heard if somebody offered them the right package they would part with Teheran.

Fire sale.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

The Mets have one less loss than the Tigers.
Two less than the Indians.
Three less than the Braves in their own division.
These are all 'sellers'.
What makes the Mets a contender over these teams?

I coud be wrong, I often am, but the Mets being competitive this year does not make them real contenders.
Sure, they should make a move to remain competitive and give their fans hope.
If only to appease their fans.
But the reality is that they are only three games better than the Atlanta Braves.

Mets are only 3 games back of division, and also in the wild card. So two avenues to get a spot if they can play better. I doubt they can play better without something to give them some energy and belief. A couple new bats might do that. Or it might not. But I just think they should try it, that's all. With that staff, think that a winning streak is possible if they can generate a little bit of offense. And perhaps they all start hitting a little better if they deepen the lineup, as they won't feel they need to do too much. They need to get Duda going. Without him finding it, it probably won't be enough, no matter what they do or do not do.

[headhunters]

no one wants to admit this- a hitter can get hot for a couple of weeks- or in the play-offs. they also don't want to admit that many of these stud minor leaguers don't pan out. it is a crapshoot. I still think the kc gm got lucky. the great pitchers he drafted never made it. moustakis stunk for a long time, wade davis was a bum as a starter etc- but perez is a gem and they won- so end of story. I still, however, think it is a crapshoot but I like the guys that try more than the guys that don't. lots of teams have some tough calls to make. ps- everytime they argue about chapman being a starter someone should bring up wade davis- chapman could be him- in reverse.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

As a KC fan, I am still not sure if Moore has gotten lucky or is a genius. Probably lean a little more to the lucky side. But what is a staple of the big league roster is elite defense. One of the best defenses of all time. Certainly the best I have ever seen. Watching them play every day, it has shown me how important defense actually is. C Perez elite 1b Hosmer elite 2b Infante Very good, some consider elite, but not elite range IMO. ss escobar elite 3b moustakis solid LF Gordon elite cf Cain beyond elite RF rios very good. Every one of them is above average and a few are the best in the majors at their position, or certainly right up there at the very least. Incredible defense and overwhelming bullpen has been enough to shield horrific starting pitching. Possibly a formula that can work in the regular season, but going to be tough to make another run with this kind of pitching staff. Either way Moore gets my respect, lucky or not. Got a really nice package for Grienke a while back. Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi among them. Odorizzi and Myers turned into Shields and Wade Davis, two very key ingredients to the run last year. Especially Wade Davis.

[headhunters]

agree 100% C and D. I was gonna mention the d. plus- I always liked cain and the brewers are kinda a go to team to make a good trade with. kc has a great d. both escobar and alexi Ramirez love to play- they hate to sit and to me that is a big big plus. it kills me moore won't trade for a stud starter now- they got beat by one last year. time to go get price or cueto.

[headhunters]

ps- kc has the best fans in sports- period. and I am from Chicago. anyone can root for the red sox or Yankees or la lakers.- but kc baseball still drew a decent amount even though the team stunk. chief fans are great. went to my only mile high game in 1995 against the chiefs. elways worst game. elvis grbak ( I think- white qb for sure) ran for an 80 yard td in a 10-7 chief victory in the rain/sleet/snow. I stayed till the end with my wife then 8 year old son and 2 year old daughter. at the end it was us and 5,000 chief fans. so much for those die hard mile high fans. I told the Denver fans before they left to go get some linebackers because you can't let a slow white qb run for an 80 yard td. next year they drafted 2 and took one from my bears- and the "d" got much better.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Re-treads Uribe and Kelly Johnson.
There's a fan appeaser....
Well, maybe not even that...
But, it does increase their chances of finishing ahead of the Braves...

[Bronx Yankees]

My first reaction was ... yawn.

After I thought about it, however, I kind of like the trade in that they upgraded their offense (a very low bar, I know) without giving up much, if anything (insofar as we can tell). This is what I was advocating they do, although I admittedly was aiming higher. I think the real test will be whether more trades are coming or if this is it. If they can add someone like Zobrist and perhaps an outfielder (Bruce, Revere, Byrd), they might at least have a semi-competitive offense to go with stellar pitching. Maybe that'll be enough to make things interesting if the Nats struggle. If, on the other hand, this is all they do, then that would indicate to me that this trade was not about trying to win now, but, rather, simply trying to appease fans. Kind of like putting lipstick on a pig.

Mike

[GetALife]

ps- kc has the best fans in sports- period. and I am from Chicago. anyone can root for the red sox or Yankees or la lakers.- but kc baseball still drew a decent amount even though the team stunk. chief fans are great. went to my only mile high game in 1995 against the chiefs. elways worst game. elvis grbak ( I think- white qb for sure) ran for an 80 yard td in a 10-7 chief victory in the rain/sleet/snow. I stayed till the end with my wife then 8 year old son and 2 year old daughter. at the end it was us and 5,000 chief fans. so much for those die hard mile high fans. I told the Denver fans before they left to go get some linebackers because you can't let a slow white qb run for an 80 yard td. next year they drafted 2 and took one from my bears- and the "d" got much better.

Are you racist against white people? "WHITE LIVES MATTER"! Join now! Start your journey to end REVERSE RACISM today!

[GetALife]

As a KC fan, I am still not sure if Moore has gotten lucky or is a genius. Probably lean a little more to the lucky side. But what is a staple of the big league roster is elite defense. One of the best defenses of all time. Certainly the best I have ever seen. Watching them play every day, it has shown me how important defense actually is. C Perez elite 1b Hosmer elite 2b Infante Very good, some consider elite, but not elite range IMO. ss escobar elite 3b moustakis solid LF Gordon elite cf Cain beyond elite RF rios very good. Every one of them is above average and a few are the best in the majors at their position, or certainly right up there at the very least. Incredible defense and overwhelming bullpen has been enough to shield horrific starting pitching. Possibly a formula that can work in the regular season, but going to be tough to make another run with this kind of pitching staff. Either way Moore gets my respect, lucky or not. Got a really nice package for Grienke a while back. Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi among them. Odorizzi and Myers turned into Shields and Wade Davis, two very key ingredients to the run last year. Especially Wade Davis.

Yeah, but they gave up a possible Cy-Young in the future in Odorizzi. Further, they let Montgomery go to Seattle and I don't know what they brought back in that deal. Montgomery could be pretty good too. Jury still out!

[Cocktails and Dreams]

As a KC fan, I am still not sure if Moore has gotten lucky or is a genius. Probably lean a little more to the lucky side. But what is a staple of the big league roster is elite defense. One of the best defenses of all time. Certainly the best I have ever seen. Watching them play every day, it has shown me how important defense actually is. C Perez elite 1b Hosmer elite 2b Infante Very good, some consider elite, but not elite range IMO. ss escobar elite 3b moustakis solid LF Gordon elite cf Cain beyond elite RF rios very good. Every one of them is above average and a few are the best in the majors at their position, or certainly right up there at the very least. Incredible defense and overwhelming bullpen has been enough to shield horrific starting pitching. Possibly a formula that can work in the regular season, but going to be tough to make another run with this kind of pitching staff. Either way Moore gets my respect, lucky or not. Got a really nice package for Grienke a while back. Cain, Escobar, Odorizzi among them. Odorizzi and Myers turned into Shields and Wade Davis, two very key ingredients to the run last year. Especially Wade Davis.

Yeah, but they gave up a possible Cy-Young in the future in Odorizzi. Further, they let Montgomery go to Seattle and I don't know what they brought back in that deal. Montgomery could be pretty good too. Jury still out!

Wade Davis was far more important to their success getting there last year. The goal is to win. They nearly did. One game away, so I don't care that they had to give up Odorrizzi. Without Davis and Shields, KC wasn't one game away from winning the World Series. Montgomery was part of the same deal. TB dealt him for Erasmo Ramirez.

Some other things to consider when evaluating the trade. KC got compensatory pick for Shields. Nolan Watson, a high school pitcher, was the choice. So going to be a while to know the worth of that. Also, one has to consider the leverage they have with Wade Davis. The haul they could get from him would be impressive. Not saying they should, but it needs to be considered. And the main thing is. The trade helped them win last year. And it is helping them win this year as well. Davis is probably the best reliever in the game.

[headhunters]

cueto- gotta be excited about that. flags fly forever.

[TOXIC ASSETS]

The Mets have a conumdrum. They need eight hitters. No matter what they do, it won't be enough.
Duda is the 2013 Duda.
Daniel Murphy is being outhit by David Murphy.
Wright is not coming back.
Flores hasn't hit a home run in his last 128 at bats.
Cuddyer is DL bound (The Mets just never admit such things till need be.....or even later)
Lagares is Franklin Gutierrez. A wonderful fielder. Sporadic hitter.
D'Arnaud is always coming back from injury.
Granderson is a leadoff hitter as Joc Pederson is a leadoff hitter.
The difference being that the Dodgers have hitters behind him.

I'm sorry, but if I'm the Mets, I'd stand pat and let the fans howl.
I'm guessing they'll get a cheap hitter for one of their prospects (not a major pitcher) just to appease their fan base.
The Mets are propped up by their Starters and Familia on the back end this year.
They have made hay in beating the Braves, Marlins, and Phils to a pulp at home to the tune of a 16-3 record.
The good teams always find ways to beat the Mets. 15-29 against teams with winning records.
Simply, they do not have the goods to win a pennant (just my opinion, Mets fans)
I wouldn't trade Montero, Matz, or any of their Big 3 Starters.
They can trade Gee, Colon, or minor prospects, but the truth is that they need too much help to contend down the stretch.
They are not a Jay Bruce or Mark Trumbo or even Hanley Ramirez away from a pennant.
I would not want to extend Harvey, Syndergaard, and deGrom more than need be this year. Fooling themselves into thinking they have a real chance could hurt the one resource that could possibly net future pennants.
Their arms.

The Phillies are in the hands of somebody whose only job was to get the most in trade for his veterans this year.
Instead, he signs Francouer (a nice story) Grady Sizemore, and 14 pitchers who everybody thought had retired.
And they threw like it.
He tells all that Utley has lost his starting job.
What great salesmanship!
Hey! Does anybody want a 2b that can't even start for the Phillies?
AND, he did the same with Ryan Howard before spring training!
Ruben is rye.
Personally, I would have given Utley to the Yankees for a bag of beans. That park could resurrect his swing and it'd be a nice 'thank you' to Utley for his years in a Phils uniform.

Then, he lets a disinterested Hamels get torched while his trade value slowly decreases because of it.
Brilliant!
Papelbon has a contract that keeps his own interest, but is repelling to contending teams.
Amaro, oblivious, thinks he'll get riches at the deadline for both.
Ugh.
The Phillies vets are Hamel's Heroes, trapped in Stalag 17 or Citizens Bank Park, all making fun of Amaro doing Colonel Klink.
Their ownership doing the Schultz line, "I SEE NOTHING, NOTHING!!!"
Again, why is he still there?
The Phils are 25th in attendance in 2015 averaging 24,000 fans a game.
Just three years ago, they were number ONE in attendance with 44,000 fans per game.
Solidly clarifying that the Phillies fan base is a lot smarter than the ownership who retain a GM that keeps 20,000 asses PER GAME, away from the seats at Citizens Bank Park.
I salute their fans.
Their ownership should be forced to endure 20,000 paper cuts to remind them that 20,000 is a helluva large number.

That's a great writeup on the Phillies, Dan. Gotta love the Hogan's Heroes reference too. When I was a kid in the 80's, the other kids would be at the pool during the summer. I'd be siting inside, from 12-2:00 pm every day, watching re-runs on Hogan's Heroes, McHale's Navy,etc. LOL

Amaro is a bum. And yes he should have already been fired. But I'll give him credit for the no trade on Hamels so far. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't make. Hamels is under contract for 3 more years with this team, and if they don't get some serious prospects back in return, I say you just keep him. I remember too many trades from too many teams, where the 'selling' team gave a away legitimate talent, in exchange for 'prospects' that never did anything.