NFBC Message Boards

I like the two lineup periods each week but have never fully embraced the "no pitcher changes" UNLESS it was because the system at the time couldn't separate legitmate DL changes. But we seem to be up to speed with STATS now handling the changes and I just don't see why a pitcher who is in our lineup and reportedly healthy on Monday who is then put on the DL after his team has started the Monday game or even on Tues or Wed (one current example is Jarred Cosart) not being able to be replaced for the weekend games.

Greg is it possible to revisit this?



PVH

Agree.

I would not be interested in doing this, mainly for the same reasons articulated on this subject in threads posted in 2011/12/13/14

Captain Hook wrote:I like the two lineup periods each week but have never fully embraced the "no pitcher changes" UNLESS it was because the system at the time couldn't separate legitmate DL changes. But we seem to be up to speed with STATS now handling the changes and I just don't see why a pitcher who is in our lineup and reportedly healthy on Monday who is then put on the DL after his team has started the Monday game or even on Tues or Wed (one current example is Jarred Cosart) not being able to be replaced for the weekend games.

Greg is it possible to revisit this?



PVH

Perry, the biggest problem with going with any setup that involves the DL is waiting for the league to officially say a player is on the DL. Rotowire and every other industry site can say on Wednesday night that a player is going on the DL, but the team may not file the paperwork until Thursday and the league won't officially put him on the DL until Friday and then all hell breaks loose on our boards because certain owners couldn't take that pitcher out of their starting lineup for the weekend games. There's no perfect setup here even when the software is ready for it. MLB's setup is too slow to make this function correctly.

We don't have DL changes for hitters; we just allow you to make weekend changes. But we can't do that for pitchers or it would become a streaming pitchers' contest. There's no perfect way to account for pitchers' injuries during the week, so for now I think the setup we have is the best setup for handling injuries. Heck, we might be the only season-long game that allows hitter moves on Fridays. I sure wish Tout Wars, LABR, FSTA and the other leagues allowed that much.

Greg Ambrosius wrote: Heck, we might be the only season-long game that allows hitter moves on Fridays. I sure wish Tout Wars, LABR, FSTA and the other leagues allowed that much.

This really needs to be added to Tout. And I'm not just saying that because I lost both Wil Myers and VMart in my Tout league to the DL yesterday.

Tom.... Tout does have this. You can make mid-week moves for DL replacements/activations only.

rmurph3 wrote:Tom.... Tout does have this. You can make mid-week moves for DL replacements/activations only.

Really? Wow, that's news to me. So I can replace Martinez and Myers today? How do I do that?

I think I figured out how to do that. I never knew that was an option. Thanks Ray.

Greg, How does changing out a DL pitcher make this a pitching streaming contest? Not following you there. Granted there are a few various ways that were discovered to try and take advantage of the rule, but it seemed to work very well in allowing people to get a pitcher in if the so choose only on Friday for a pitcher that has not pitched that week and has the DL tag. There is a reason you thought it was a good idea to go to in the first place. Still not quite sure why it still is not a good idea.

I didn't understand why DL'ed pitchers couldn't be replaced as well, until I just read Greg's response. I completely see the issue now and agree. So, how about something this . . . . Each year each team gets 1 or 3 (whatever the number is - I would think 3 would be the absolute max) pitcher swap out for the weekend. Doesn't even have to be DL purposes either. I'm not a programmer and not sure how easy it would be to do something like that. But, just an idea.

DL'ed pitchers replaced...
Set number of pitching moves...
Replacing one pitcher every Friday...
Installing a pitcher on Friday for a pitcher who has not thrown a pitch Mon-Thurs...

Have all been shot down in the past...just to save time for this thread

"DIE DIE streaming pigs !! NO MOVES FOR YOU !!"

dl pitchers replaced is the only one used in the past. That is the what the thread is discussing. And I am curious as to why it didn't work. If you can take out batters on the weekend, I am not sure why you cannot at least replace a disabled pitcher that hasn't thrown for you that week. There has to be some good reasons. I would like to hear some.

Chad,

I believe the issue was teams putting in DL pitcher to potentially avoid a bad matchup for a two-start pitcher to then be replaced by said pitcher later in the week for a better matchup.

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:dl pitchers replaced is the only one used in the past. That is the what the thread is discussing. And I am curious as to why it didn't work. If you can take out batters on the weekend, I am not sure why you cannot at least replace a disabled pitcher that hasn't thrown for you that week. There has to be some good reasons. I would like to hear some.

One reason was timing.

Jarrod Cosart gets hurt before a start, Miami dl's him immediately
Wandy Rodriguez gets hurt before a start. Texas has a starter and replaces Rodriguez with that pitcher.
Texas puts Rodriguez on the d.l. Friday and calls up a reliever.
The Cosart owner had benefit of the dl rule.
The Rodriguez owner does not.
The only difference being in the timing the two teams used to dl the two pitchers.

ALL-IN JD wrote:Chad,

I believe the issue was teams putting in DL pitcher to potentially avoid a bad matchup for a two-start pitcher to then be replaced by said pitcher later in the week for a better matchup.

I do recall that part now that you mention it. I guess the rule could simply be the guy has to go on DL after his team lineup lock. That would combat this if it is that big of a deal. It is a bigger deal having to take a zero all week when a guy doesn't pitch for you and goes on DL. We don't have to take zero for batters all week. Not sure why batting is more important than pitching at the NFBC.

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:dl pitchers replaced is the only one used in the past. That is the what the thread is discussing. And I am curious as to why it didn't work. If you can take out batters on the weekend, I am not sure why you cannot at least replace a disabled pitcher that hasn't thrown for you that week. There has to be some good reasons. I would like to hear some.

One reason was timing.

Jarrod Cosart gets hurt before a start, Miami dl's him immediately
Wandy Rodriguez gets hurt before a start. Texas has a starter and replaces Rodriguez with that pitcher.
Texas puts Rodriguez on the d.l. Friday and calls up a reliever.
The Cosart owner had benefit of the dl rule.
The Rodriguez owner does not.
The only difference being in the timing the two teams used to dl the two pitchers.

Big deal. The guy is not on the DL. It is rare for a team to wait a long time to DL a pitcher they know they are going to DL.

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:Greg, How does changing out a DL pitcher make this a pitching streaming contest? Not following you there. Granted there are a few various ways that were discovered to try and take advantage of the rule, but it seemed to work very well in allowing people to get a pitcher in if the so choose only on Friday for a pitcher that has not pitched that week and has the DL tag. There is a reason you thought it was a good idea to go to in the first place. Still not quite sure why it still is not a good idea.

My initial goal in allowing DL moves on Fridays was to avoid ZEROES for hitters and pitchers who were put on the DL during the week. That was my goal and I felt we could do that to the benefit of our owners to make the game better, more skillful than lucky. But there were two issues I didn't see:

1. The official designation of the DL by MLB teams. You say it worked very well. It didn't. Hitters and pitchers were hurt on Tuesday or Wednesday and listed as going on the DL by industry sites and yet we didn't allow the moves until there was an official DL designation by Major League Baseball. And that had to be done by 7 am on Friday to prevent NFBC owners from looking online all day for that designation. Many times the official DL designation didn't happen within a day or even two days and the bitching on the boards at STATS for being slow with this was unfair. We had nothing to do with it. So I'm glad we don't have this rule applied via the DL for hitters or pitchers.

2. I didn't expect owners to put a DL'd pitcher in their starting lineup at the start of the week to "game the system" for a 2-start pitcher who had a rough first matchup and an ideal second matchup. Now I'm sure someone will put a funny picture about that statement and me being archaic about not letting folks manage their rosters better. But our setup is to put your best starting lineup in at the start of the week and play it through the week. If we want more mid-week strategies then we should design rules to make moves during the week more prominent. But this was a rule to help with mid-week injuries and I didn't expect to see owners playing it this way.

We don't value hitters more than pitchers in the NFBC. It's just a tough rule to enforce for pitchers without it becoming more of an every-Friday-change-out-pitchers league that not everyone would embrace.

rickerbockerNFBC wrote:I didn't understand why DL'ed pitchers couldn't be replaced as well, until I just read Greg's response. I completely see the issue now and agree. So, how about something this . . . . Each year each team gets 1 or 3 (whatever the number is - I would think 3 would be the absolute max) pitcher swap out for the weekend. Doesn't even have to be DL purposes either. I'm not a programmer and not sure how easy it would be to do something like that. But, just an idea.

If we were to do anything with pitchers, my hope is that it wouldn't involve the official MLB DL list. Hopefully we could figure out a process that allows owners to make the move without that stupid list from MLB.

Quahogs wrote:

"DIE DIE streaming pigs !! NO MOVES FOR YOU !!"

Streaming pitchers may be a good thing for a team or two, but I do think it would make it tough to grow our contests and grow our participation. Owners would feel the need to be there every Friday along with being there every Sunday and every Monday to not miss out on every possible move. It seems like a move that would make our game better, but I believe it would thin out our ranks of participants and hurt our growth. Just my two cents, without the cool photo, for what it's worth.

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:

DOUGHBOYS wrote:

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:dl pitchers replaced is the only one used in the past. That is the what the thread is discussing. And I am curious as to why it didn't work. If you can take out batters on the weekend, I am not sure why you cannot at least replace a disabled pitcher that hasn't thrown for you that week. There has to be some good reasons. I would like to hear some.

One reason was timing.

Jarrod Cosart gets hurt before a start, Miami dl's him immediately
Wandy Rodriguez gets hurt before a start. Texas has a starter and replaces Rodriguez with that pitcher.
Texas puts Rodriguez on the d.l. Friday and calls up a reliever.
The Cosart owner had benefit of the dl rule.
The Rodriguez owner does not.
The only difference being in the timing the two teams used to dl the two pitchers.

Big deal. The guy is not on the DL. It is rare for a team to wait a long time to DL a pitcher they know they are going to DL.

Wow. You say big deal?
A team gets a benefit that YOU don't?
You say 'big deal' till it happens to YOU.
Then, of course, it becomes a stupid rule.
That it costs you money.
It happens more than you think it does and left alot of grumbling from those effected before.
What good is a rule that helps some, but not others?
Simple answer is that it doesn't make for a good rule at all.

Long live John Smoltz!

Gekko wrote:Long live John Smoltz!

I have felt burdened by this rule in the past and of course I have Cosart in three leagues.

Plain and simple, the only way I see around the rule would be if the commissioner determined which pitcher could be replaced on Friday. Then that pitcher would be designated in some way as being able to be replaced. Cosart would be an easy call.

The only problem I see with this is people have to check and change their lineups on Friday and not before. Also it creates more work for the commissioner. Probably not a very good idea but having Cosart in three leagues leaves you searching for solutions.

Greg Ambrosius wrote:If we were to do anything with pitchers, my hope is that it wouldn't involve the official MLB DL list. Hopefully we could figure out a process that allows owners to make the move without that stupid list from MLB.

Why can't we just allow owners to change out any pitcher on Friday who hasn't already pitched Monday through Thursday. I don't see why that wouldn't resolve all issues.

It would allow owners to swap out a pitcher who is DL'd after the Monday locks but before he pitches ala Cosart. It would also prevent owners searching for a loophole from streaming a 2-start pitcher away from a tough early week start while activating him for an easier late week start.

And all this done without relying on the MLB DL designation.

Wouldn't that address all the concerns?

This is my second year playing in the Main Event...both years I've drafted 2 teams.
I really enjoy gambling.....poker and especially in year long baseball leagues.
I don't mind losing....it happens...your not going to win every time you sit down at the poker table. And your not going to win every baseball league..that's why I've been fielding 2 teams.

Losing because of luck....that's just part of the game....but losing because my players get hurt and I can't replace them in my lineup...that's really frustrating. Frustrating to the point where sometimes I don't want to come back to this game next year. Why is there a churn rate every year? You can contribute that to players feeling that they aren't getting a fair handshake because of injuries. That's the way I feel anyhow.

I love the idea of switching up your hitters on friday....it gives me options if someone gets hurt on Monday or Thursday or whenever. Do I sometimes stream hitters?....of course...I play match ups...do the moves sometimes backfire....so course.....and they could happen if you try to stream pitchers.

If you don't want to change the rules because people are afraid of streaming then I have news for you.....it happens every week...teams pick up 2 start pitchers every week. I don't think it's a secret.

Krys