Over Management vs. Trusting Aces

[DOUGHBOYS]

Clayton Kershaw was taken out of the game after 87 pitches.
87 pitches.
The best pitcher in baseball.
Five innings.
Welcome to playoff baseball.
For those of us weaned on Koufax, Gibson, or even Lolich in the first, fourth, and seventh games of Series, it is hard to watch.
I can't even fathom a Manager approaching Gibson about taking him out after five innings

The move turned out alright. The Dodgers won the game.
Still, baseball fans are left wondering if playoff baseball is a pretense of future baseball.
Granted, Kershaw has not been even close to the best PLAYOFF pitcher in baseball.
But, how soon before we going to see starting pitchers used as a bridge to relievers as they are used during these playoffs?
It seems that every Manager has become Joe Maddon in that they cannot wait to over manage a baseball game.

As stated before, baseball is changing before our very eyes.
There were over 4,000 more home runs and strike outs this season than just three years ago.
Only one starting pitcher (Corey Kluber) averaged seven innings per start this season.
In the year 2000, almost 500 pitchers threw 120 pitches or more in a game. This year, less than 50 threw 120 pitches.
The average pitches per start falls every year.

Pitching changes take about five minutes. There is the meeting on the mound. The walk of the reliever to the mound.
The eight warmup pitches.
If even only three relievers are summoned from each side, fans have still spent a half hour of their time at the ball park, not watching a single meaningful pitch.
The trend is worse for fantasy players.
Wins have become impossible to forecast. They are more a case of being in the right place at the right time more than a well thought out plan.

Fantasy Football has been hurt and not as compelling with the advent of 'committees'.
Fantasy baseball is starting to see the same thing on the pitching side of things.
Luckily, during the regular season, a managers trick is not to overtax his bullpen.
It's a saving grace.
When Managers do not think that way, our game will be hurt.

It was refreshing to see Justin Verlander throw over 120 pitches and throw a Complete Game yesterday.
THAT is the playoff baseball I remember.
Throw your best pitcher for as long as you can throw your best pitcher.
Houston only had one Complete Game during their regular season.
It may not be the right thing in today's game. I get that. Agents own the game.
Who knows?
That may be the last time we see that phenomenon.
If so, thanks for the memory.

I had no dog in the hunt before the playoffs started.
I just wanted to watch good baseball.
The over managing from most clubs has turned me off.
It has me pulling for the Astros.
The Astros seem to have the only Manager remaining who trusts his Aces.
Resisting the inclination to show how smart he is, by calling in this reliever or that.
The other Managers have forgotten the origin of the word 'relievers'.
'Relief' is for tiring or beat up pitchers.
Not for over management.

[mbendar16]

Another premium starter gives up 1 run and can't make it through 5. Agree 100% with you Dan, refreshing to see Verlander go all the way. I know the drama for TV made for an excellent game 7 last year, but Maddon almost cost his team a title, as Hendricks was dominating and was in the same spot as Lester tonight with 1 run through 5, with exception that it was a game 7 instead of game 2. This is getting worse and worse every year, as it used to be that weak starting pitching forced managers to the bullpen early, but now almost all starters are taken out at the 1st sign of trouble instead of be trusted to get out of their own jams. When these type of decisions does ultimately cost a team a title, then maybe change will turn slightly to the old days. As in all sports, success leads to copying, and strong bullpens have been a main component of championships in baseball lately.

As i'm writing, Rich Hill barely makes it through 5 and 1 run with less than 80 pitches.

[DOUGHBOYS]

It is amusing watching these teams try to score without benefit of a home run!

[Bronx Yankees]

Agree that it's ridiculous taking well-performing aces out after five innings. Pitchers from earlier eras probably look at the current game and the coddling of starting pitchers with some level of disgust. That being noted, it was impressive to see Verlander go 120+ pitches and nine innings the other night against the Yankees (although I didn't like the result against my Yanks). Verlander and Scherzer and a few others have that "old school" mentality that it is their game to win or lose and they are ready to go the distance whenever needed. Sadly, they seem to represent a minority, as are managers who are willing to let them stay in a game.

Mike

[whale4evr]

Pitching changes take about five minutes. There is the meeting on the mound. The walk of the reliever to the mound.
The eight warmup pitches.
If even only three relievers are summoned from each side, fans have still spent a half hour of their time at the ball park, not watching a single meaningful pitch.
The trend is worse for fantasy players.
Wins have become impossible to forecast. They are more a case of being in the right place at the right time more than a well thought out plan.

I think you've found the crux of the problem for games being so long. With so many pitching changes in the game today there's no chance for a quick paced game. I could see this more in the playoffs with such a short "season" of 5 or 7 games each round and many off days that everyone is basically a reliever. Why over tax one guy when you've got 13 to use?

[DOUGHBOYS]

Pitching changes take about five minutes. There is the meeting on the mound. The walk of the reliever to the mound.
The eight warmup pitches.
If even only three relievers are summoned from each side, fans have still spent a half hour of their time at the ball park, not watching a single meaningful pitch.
The trend is worse for fantasy players.
Wins have become impossible to forecast. They are more a case of being in the right place at the right time more than a well thought out plan.

I think you've found the crux of the problem for games being so long. With so many pitching changes in the game today there's no chance for a quick paced game. I could see this more in the playoffs with such a short "season" of 5 or 7 games each round and many off days that everyone is basically a reliever. Why over tax one guy when you've got 13 to use?

It's funny, but Major League Baseball has, in a sense, stolen our slo-pitch softball rules.
We have a line extending parallel from the plate to backstop. This makes the catcher a first baseman on throws from the field.
If the runner crosses the parallel line before the catcher receives the ball with foot on the plate, the runner is safe.
No collisions at home plate. Easier calls for the ump.
We also have no sliding over a base. If that happens, the runner is out.
We also have the extra inning rule that MLB is talking about with a runner on second base and one out for extra innings.
We also have a one pitch warmup for new pitchers.
I believe that MLB should incorporate this as well.
The bullpen offers enough warmups and the one pitch would be to get use to the new mound.
Eight pitches is absurd.

[Navel Lint]

We also have a one pitch warmup for new pitchers.
I believe that MLB should incorporate this as well.
The bullpen offers enough warmups and the one pitch would be to get use to the new mound.
Eight pitches is absurd.

I would be 100% behind 0/1 warmup pitch.
I think this rule would be best used in combination with a restriction on catcher/infielder mound visits and a pitch-clock to prevent stalling for pitching changes.

[DOUGHBOYS]

We also have a one pitch warmup for new pitchers.
I believe that MLB should incorporate this as well.
The bullpen offers enough warmups and the one pitch would be to get use to the new mound.
Eight pitches is absurd.

I would be 100% behind 0/1 warmup pitch.
I think this rule would be best used in combination with a restriction on catcher/infielder mound visits and a pitch-clock to prevent stalling for pitching changes.

I believe these changes would make for a better game. I also believe that the catcher should be limited to one visit an inning with the pitcher. Any visit thereafter, results in a ball awarded to the batter.