1961 and 2017

[DOUGHBOYS]

Indulge me during this post. I have no idea where it will lead.

Last night, while supervising at the softball park, a gentleman approached me asking if I had the score of the Indians-Yankees game. I told him it was 5-2 in the ninth inning.
"Shit!"
"Yankees hater?", I replied.
"No, I watch a lot of sports on tv and if it comes down to the Dodgers and Yankees again, we're going to hear about their damned histories again forever!"
Sarcastically, I replied that our media would never over expound on teams from New York and Los Angeles.

Anyway, I brought the name, Vada Pinson, up to him.
Pinson is a buzz word for me. It lets me detect how much the fella I am talking to knows his past about baseball.
Vada Pinson should be in the Hall of Fame. When he was able to be elected, there were so many deserving players and the voters were so elitist at the time, that Pinson was 'forgotten'.
Look at this list...

Players with 250 home runs, 250 stolen bases, 2500 hits....

Willie Mays
Vada Pinson
Robin Yount
Joe Morgan
Rickey Henderson
Barry Bonds
Alex Rodriguez
Craig Biggio
Andre Dawson
Steve Finley

Finley and Pinson, the only non-Hall of Fame or future Hall of Famers on the list.
Vada Pinson was second (behind Mays) to accomplish the feat.
Pinson was a center fielder (Again, behind Mays as the best at his position) who played over 150 games nine years in a row.
Before going on and on about him, let's just say that Pinson was one of the best under the radar player who has ever played Major League Baseball.
My new friend knew Pinson and well.
He passed the Pinson test and we talked baseball the rest of the night.

One of the things talked about was 1961.
Mantle and Maris was trying to catch Babe Ruth's record of 60 home runs.
Unlike now, where today's fans root for any player wearing a home jersey, Yankee fans were discerning.
Mantle was their favorite. Maris was a 'Johnny come lately', who was only with the team for two years.
It didn't help that New York tabloids lauded Mantle's every move, while Maris was written about as aloof and a loner.

Mantle got hurt and his quest to break Ruth's record stopped at 54 homers.
Maris carried on.
And this is the thing my new friend and I talked about most.
The media did not go over the top in carrying on about Maris possible record.
Sure, when he hit 58 and 59 homers, it was a banner headline on the sports page. But, there was no constant talk in the papers as there is now with players who come close. Or even before when DiMaggio had his hitting streak.
There were things at play here.
1. A lot of fans did not want to see Ruth's record broken.
2. If Ruth's record was to be broken, the overwhelming choice to break it, was Mantle not Maris.
3. Maris, quite simply, was not appreciated by baseball fans.

When Maris did break Ruth's home run record, it is fair to say that most baseball fans were disappointed.
Babe Ruth was iconic.
60 was a round, easily remembered record.
Maris? 61? Yuck.
Baseball powers, namely Commissioner Ford Frick, who was a friend of the Babe and visited him on his death bed, tried to underscore the Maris possibility of hitting 61 homers.
He declared that should Ruth's record be broken, it would be marked in record books with an asterisk.
It was the asterisk heard round the world.
Everybody thought there was now an asterisk next to Maris name in the record books.
After all, he had the temerity to play in a season with 162 games when Babe only had a 154 game season.
It was an asterisk that was not applied in record books.
But so widely known, that it was indelible on every baseball fan's mind.
Some sort of misguided justice for Ruth.
On Maris last day of the season, he was asked if he even wanted to be in the lineup. The pressures of breaking Ruth's record weighed on him. When deciding to play, he hit in his customary three-spot in the lineup.
You guys know the rest of the story.
To illustrate the snobish approach of Maris by Yankee fans, there were on;y 23,000 in attendance to see if Maris could break Ruth's record.
And just an aside, I thought the TOPPS 1961 baseball card set was awesome.
Especially the Sporting News All Stars within the set.
Maris card in that inner set has him looking like he is close to throwing up.
Almost apropos.

Alright, I got a little sidetracked by the Maris hoopla....
Anyway, after I got home last night, I couldn't sleep.
I thought about how '61 in some ways mirrored the year past.
We had Giancarlo Stanton going for 60 as Maris had.
We had the fellow that New York had fallen in love with. Only this time, his name wasn't Mantle, it was Judge.
Like Mantle, Judge had fallen short in the home run race with 50-something homers, but was first in their hearts.
By the way, when Stanton was going for 60 homers in the last game of the season, only 25,000 paid to see it.

In 1961, home runs were the main topic of discussion. So many!
Just the year before, Ernie Banks had the most home runs with just 41.
In 1961, seven players hit at least that many.
Including a 'nobody' who broke Babe Ruth's record.
There was talk about the game becoming too easy for the hitter.
1961 proved to be part of a hitters trend.
That trend ended with the emergence of Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, and Drysdale.
Before the end of the century, they were actually lowering the mound for the hitters.

When baseball folks can't explain a phenomena, they don't look at the players, they look at outside things.
When players struck out too much, it wasn't the harder swings, it was the strike zone of umpires.
When hitting many home runs, it's a juiced ball.
Personally, I don't think that Major League Baseball is smart enough to change the baseball's without the public knowing about it for over a years worth of time.
But, that is neither here nor there.

In 1961, despite all those home runs by the top hitters in the league, only 10 hitters struck out 100 times.
And that is with EIGHT hitters with 40 home runs.
Only five hitters had 40 homers this year.
In 2017, 140 hitters struck out 100 times!
In 1961, Jake Wood led baseball in strike outs with 141.
In 2017, 38 hitters (missers) had that total.
In 1961, there was a semblance of guilt, even disgrace after a strike out.
That is gone today.
Today, a strike out is an out, nothing more, nothing less.
It is a means to an end.
The cost in trying to hit a home run.

Today, more than a third of Major League at bats result in a ball not being put in play. If we add home runs, we are on the way to seeing 50 percent of at bats with balls not fielded by the defense.
It is bad for baseball.
Although the home runs may remind us of 1961, the rest of the game does not.Players are swinging harder than ever before.
And missing more than ever before.
Nuances of the game are being forgotten.
Sacrifices by position players, the hit and run, hitting to the opposite side have all been back pocketed because most hitters have the possibility of the almighty home run.
Offensive strategies have died.
Platooning is easy.
The reliable pinch hitter off the bench? Gone.
In 1961, those components were still in play.
Like '61 was, I hope that today's game is a passing trend.
For baseball's sake.

[headhunters]

to see how much YOU know- and keep in mind that you forgot the boston media- pinson maybe should be in the hall- but what do these OF"S have in common? andre jones, carlos beltran, larry walker, jim edmonds, dwight evans, kenny lofton, and gary sheffield. and then add these for answer #2 luis s gonzalez, jimmy wynn, brian giles, jose cruz mike trout and my personal favorite- chet lemmon. yes- these guys aren't in the hall but who is and these guys aren't.

[DOUGHBOYS]

to see how much YOU know- and keep in mind that you forgot the boston media- pinson maybe should be in the hall- but what do these OF"S have in common? andre jones, carlos beltran, larry walker, jim edmonds, dwight evans, kenny lofton, and gary sheffield. and then add these for answer #2 luis s gonzalez, jimmy wynn, brian giles, jose cruz mike trout and my personal favorite- chet lemmon. yes- these guys aren't in the hall but who is and these guys aren't.

Just a thing that has never happened before....

The four teams left have the largest tv markets in the United States.
Never happened before.
New York
Los Angeles
Chicago
Houston
Every sport media outlets wet dream.

[DOUGHBOYS]

to see how much YOU know- and keep in mind that you forgot the boston media- pinson maybe should be in the hall- but what do these OF"S have in common? andre jones, carlos beltran, larry walker, jim edmonds, dwight evans, kenny lofton, and gary sheffield. and then add these for answer #2 luis s gonzalez, jimmy wynn, brian giles, jose cruz mike trout and my personal favorite- chet lemmon. yes- these guys aren't in the hall but who is and these guys aren't.

As for your question, let me try the first one, then ponder the second as I'm leaving for lunch.

It's an interesting grouping of names.
Andruw Jones had a terrible batting average and less than 2,000 hits, eliminating those categories.
Kenny Lofton did not hit for power, eliminating homers and rbi
Dwight Evans did not steal many bases.
Sheffield sucked as a fielder.
I'm going to guess that all of them scored over 1,200 runs in their career....like Vada Pinson

But I know you would not make it that easy...

[Navel Lint]

to see how much YOU know- and keep in mind that you forgot the boston media- pinson maybe should be in the hall- but what do these OF"S have in common? andre jones, carlos beltran, larry walker, jim edmonds, dwight evans, kenny lofton, and gary sheffield. and then add these for answer #2 luis s gonzalez, jimmy wynn, brian giles, jose cruz mike trout and my personal favorite- chet lemmon. yes- these guys aren't in the hall but who is and these guys aren't.

As for your question, let me try the first one, then ponder the second as I'm leaving for lunch.

It's an interesting grouping of names.
Andruw Jones had a terrible batting average and less than 2,000 hits, eliminating those categories.
Kenny Lofton did not hit for power, eliminating homers and rbi
Dwight Evans did not steal many bases.
Sheffield sucked as a fielder.
I'm going to guess that all of them scored over 1,200 runs in their career....like Vada Pinson

But I know you would not make it that easy...

If I can play.........
My guess is the first group all have higher WAR numbers than Pinson.
And the second group also have higher WAR numbers than HOFer Orlando Cepeda.

WAR numbers can definitely give some context to a players season and career, but they don't tell the whole story.

[DOUGHBOYS]

WAR is a person passing on the street to me. Never give it a glance.

Thanks for the questions, Mike.
I don't know the answers, but it reminded me of Jimmy Wynn and how I thought he got the most out of a small frame.
The Toy Cannon. He and Joe Morgan made the Astros a lot of fun to watch during bleak years for them.

As said, I don't know what you're looking for, but of the players on that second list, I would support Pinson's bid long before those named, except maybe Trout, he has a chance of doing pretty well.

[whale4evr]

Just like rock music peaked in 1973 (sorry Homer Jay Simpson not 1974) baseball peaked in the 1985 Series. I have a friend who's a Cardinal fan that still curses Don Denkinger. That '85 Cardinal team might have been the most fun to watch in my viewing history. John Tudor pitching was about as good as it gets. We'll never see that kind of baseball again. You can blame the bash brother A's for that.

[headhunters]

ya- i don't i don't like defensive war at all. but offensive war lines up pretty well. the 1st group are outfielders with higher war than andre dawson- the all time out maker. the second group along with the 1st has a higher war than jim rice. chet lemmon for example was a much better baseball player than jim rice.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Just like rock music peaked in 1973 (sorry Homer Jay Simpson not 1974) baseball peaked in the 1985 Series. I have a friend who's a Cardinal fan that still curses Don Denkinger. That '85 Cardinal team might have been the most fun to watch in my viewing history. John Tudor pitching was about as good as it gets. We'll never see that kind of baseball again. You can blame the bash brother A's for that.

Man, Tudor was good. And you're right, we will never see that kind of baseball again.
It's funny, the bigger and faster players got in the NFL, the worse the game got.
Today, it is a shell of its former game.
Baseball is falling victim to the same thing.
Everybody can hit a home run. Woo hoo. Bring back the real game.

You're also right about music peaking in the mid-70's. It was listenable up to the 80's, then died.

I still watch baseball. As I get older, it is harder and harder to listen to broadcasters. No matter who it is.
They tell us things we already know. Heck, we can listen to our wives do that!
My biggest gripe lately has been foul balls.
Nobody gives a shit about foul balls. Nobody.
BUT, if a hitter has a long at bat with foul balls, they all of a sudden become important. A great at bat, as it were.
What a load.