2011 Draft Las Vegas Hotel thoughts

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:01 pm

The following was a statement by Jules aka(RedRyder) from the NFFC board.

"Good luck with higher rates with the baseball crowd. The majority of folks I spoke with in the NFBC could care less that they drafted at the Bellagio and actually, some were not too happy. Add in room rates in excess of $200 and wow!!!

The best high stakes event I have drafted in live was at The South Point. I know, this coming for the woman whose fave Vegas hotels are THEhotel, Green Valley Ranch & The Bellagio, seems like a crazy statement.

I thought I read that Fanball was trying to grow their live events. $239 hotel rates is not the way to do it. And absolutely, we are free to stay wherever we want in Vegas and other cities, but I will say again, part of the allure (for me) of drafting live is staying in the host hotel. I love being able to take an elevator down and within minutes be at the draft tables (as was the case with the NFBC). I love running into other owners in the lobby, the sportsbook, the casino floor or restaurants. I love not having to pay cab fare to get to my draft, etc.

So, if the Bellagio won't offer Fanball/NFFC better rates and we (customers) now have to pay an events fee to cover the costs associated with drafting at The Bellagio, why are we there?

I get an events fee is likely anywhere, but at the NFBC I heard how much it cost for a bag a chips and what the minimums were for food & drink. Ouch.

Loved, loved, loved the NFBC experience at The Bellagio the first weekend. But, that was with reasonable room rates and no events fee (because of an early bird special)."

I think Jules is pretty Damn Smart! Much smarter than me. Which goes without saying!

How does everyone else feel about Las Vegas next year? Bellagio sounding as good with higher rates?

Just wondering?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:33 am

John, I can address this thread even before anyone else wants to debate the merits of the Bellagio. 2011 in Las Vegas is already a struggle as there are several big shows set for March that is making space very difficult. The ConExpo is back in Las Vegas during the first weekend of March Madness and naturally space and hotel rooms are at a minimum. Prices for hotel rooms at the premiere hotels will not be as cheap as they were last year when we got the Bellagio for $109 a night the first weekend and $159 the second weekend.

There are some options on the Strip, but trust me this isn't a matter of "should we go here or would you rather go there" for 2011. The second weekend of March Madness also has tough space even with ConExpo done and again I think hotel rates are going to be higher. We'll see what the economy looks like, but I've talked to several hotel managers in Las Vegas and they say the first quarter of 2011 from a convention standpoint is the best it's been in years and space is going to be tight.

I hear what Jules is saying and we were all very fortunate to have the Bellagio in 2010 at the rates we had. We are hosting the NFFC at the Bellagio over Labor Day weekend and unfortunately that holiday weekend is going to be a complete sellout for the Bellagio at inflated rates. We had hoped for some discounted rooms, but couldn't get them like we had in March. So we'll host the drafts there, allow any owners who want to stay with us there and understand if some fellow NFFC owners stay somewhere else, just like they've done in the past.

And going forward, we'll look for an affordable hotel in Las Vegas for both weekends of March Madness and see what is available. We still want a first-rate hotel and we're doing everything we can to get a top one, but 2011 is going to be much tougher to get what we want in Las Vegas.

JamesH · Post by **JamesH** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:03 am

My two cents are to leave glitz and glamour to the glitzy and glamourous. By and large we're a bunch of dudes that would be happy eating popcorn, drinking cheap beer, and drafting in a basement. No doubt, the Bellagio is nice. But it doubles the cost of places like the Flamingo, Bally's or Harrahs for the participants. For many it makes the decision to pass on playing any easy one.

Money · Post by **Money** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:34 am

I may be in a minority (and I amy not), but I prefer the Bellagio. I left the cheap beer, basements and popcorn behind for the allure of the High Stakes Game. Players are stepping up with thousands of dollars to play in these events. The difference in hotel rates is marginal at best in the scheme of things.

Just my two cents.

Cowboy Joe · Post by **Cowboy Joe** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 5:13 am

What about giving the Phoenix area and spring training a try for 2011?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:01 am

Originally posted by Cowboy Joe:

What about giving the Phoenix area and spring training a try for 2011? Arizona is one of the six states that has very rigid gambling laws. This might fall into the gray area there, which makes it tough for anyone looking to host an event in Arizona. But hopefully more states will realize that we are doing everything within the guidelines of the Anti-Internet Gambling Law that has the fantasy carveout language and would be receptive to something like this. It could be a nice alternative some day.

Dak · Post by **Dak** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:19 am

Originally posted by Fast Money:

I may be in a minority (and I amy not), but I prefer the Bellagio. I left the cheap beer, basements and popcorn behind for the allure of the High Stakes Game. Players are stepping up with thousands of dollars to play in these events. The difference in hotel rates is marginal at best in the scheme of things.

Just my two cents. Your 2 cents is 2 bucks at the Bellagio!!!

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:25 am

Greg,

There are lots of Indian Casinos now operating in the Phoenix area. Have you looked at the possibility of holding the draft at one of them? Perhaps that is a way around the strict Arizona gambling laws.

The Phoenix idea has alot of appeal because of Spring Training.

Hells Satans · Post by **Hells Satans** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:11 am

Just because the draft is a the Bellagio doesnt't mean you have to stay at the Bellagio. If it's too much $$, go stay down the street at Imperial Palace and make the 5 minute walk.

As for Arizona....lolwut??? Gambling belongs in Vegas. Period.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:36 am

Originally posted by robertkirk:

Greg,

There are lots of Indian Casinos now operating in the Phoenix area. Have you looked at the possibility of holding the draft at one of them? Perhaps that is a way around the strict Arizona gambling laws.

The Phoenix idea has alot of appeal because of Spring Training. The Indian casinos have very specific guidelines on what kind of events they can host and we've found that they don't want to take any chances on fantasy sports because it could be perceived differently. We've run into this in Minnesota, at Mohecan and other places. I don't blame them as they have their own licenses and don't need to host our little event to survive. But no, that area has been tried and hasn't worked yet.

Rainiers · Post by **Rainiers** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 1:28 pm

Greg,

Got it.

Thanks for taking the time to explain.

Bob

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:49 pm

Oy John, reading your post made me take a look at my hotel costs and it's about $1025!!! Two weekends cuz I'm doing the Diamond League the second weekend (and not even staying Saturday night!).

That's ridiculous!! My fantasy budget is tight as it is...something is gonna give...BLAH!

eddiejag · Post by **eddiejag** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:09 pm

Originally posted by RedRyder:

Oy John, reading your post made me take a look at my hotel costs and it's about $1025!!! Two weekends cuz I'm doing the Diamond League the second weekend (and not even staying Saturday night!).

That's ridiculous!! My fantasy budget is tight as it is...something is gonna give...BLAH! The costs just to play just flat out suck's.You need to get creative and trying to fiqure ways to cut costs.Ive gotten silent partners in the last few years which i use that money for the trip which is a big help.Also might be time to split hotels with friends,i know thats tough if married and bringing your wife but for the single guys start splitting the hotel cost's.Ive done this a few times and it helps big time.The bottom lne is i want to play and will do what ive got to do just to play. good luck all this year in football.

Money · Post by **Money** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:46 pm

Originally posted by eddiejag:

quote:Originally posted by RedRyder:

Oy John, reading your post made me take a look at my hotel costs and it's about $1025!!! Two weekends cuz I'm doing the Diamond League the second weekend (and not even staying Saturday night!).

That's ridiculous!! My fantasy budget is tight as it is...something is gonna give...BLAH! The costs just to play just flat out suck's.You need to get creative and trying to fiqure ways to cut costs.Ive gotten silent partners in the last few years which i use that money for the trip which is a big help.Also might be time to split hotels with friends,i know thats tough if married and bringing your wife but for the single guys start splitting the hotel cost's.Ive done this a few times and it helps big time.The bottom lne is i want to play and will do what ive got to do just to play. good luck all this year in football. [/QUOTE]If the cost of travel is that prohibitive, enter the on line events. If you can afford to play in the diamond leagues I would think that you can manipulate your budgets. If not play the ultimate and enjoy the trip.

This is silly coming from folks that are playing for these kind of stakes. I realize you're the best and feel you deserve to win, but come on......

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:09 pm

Originally posted by Fast Money:

quote:Originally posted by eddiejag:

quote:Originally posted by RedRyder:

Oy John, reading your post made me take a look at my hotel costs and it's about $1025!!! Two weekends cuz I'm doing the Diamond League the second weekend (and not even staying Saturday night!).

That's ridiculous!! My fantasy budget is tight as it is...something is gonna give...BLAH! The costs just to play just flat out suck's.You need to get creative and trying to fiqure ways to cut costs.Ive gotten silent partners in the last few years which i use that money for the trip which is a big help.Also might be time to split hotels with friends,i know thats tough if married and bringing your wife but for the single guys start splitting the hotel cost's.Ive done this a few times and it helps big time.The bottom lne is i want to play and will do what ive got to do just to play. good luck all this year in football. [/QUOTE]If the cost of travel is that prohibitive, enter the on line events. If you can afford to play in the diamond leagues I would think that you can manipulate your budgets. If not play the ultimate and enjoy the trip.

This is silly coming from folks that are playing for these kind of stakes. I realize you're the best and feel you deserve to win, but come on...... [/QUOTE]Joe, I see your point and more than likely you are correct and I more than likely will call Greg and opt out of at least one or more events.

However, in the past, I didn't pay that much jack for hotels. And I haven't even factored in airfare or food with my $1025, add $200 for airfare and who knows how much for food.

So, in the past I was able to play in the live events and enjoy everything that comes with that (mainly hanging with friends, meeting new ones and just that great sense of community). I was going to write that I wasn't sure what changed, but I do know!

I don't think it's silly though commenting (Biatching if you will) on the cost to play in live fantasy events, especially in this economy. Just because I play in the Diamond (and like Eddie and many others I know, I do have silent partners), doesn't mean I want to waste my money on travel and accommodations.

whipsaw · Post by **whipsaw** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 8:51 am

Forgive me if these questions are a bit naive, I'm someone who has not attended a live NFBC event. Do you have to stay at the Bellagio to participate in the live draft? Is there any inherent advantage to doing so? If not, then why not stay at the Flamingo literally across the street for like a third of the price?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:17 am

Originally posted by whipsaw:

Forgive me if these questions are a bit naive, I'm someone who has not attended a live NFBC event. Do you have to stay at the Bellagio to participate in the live draft? Is there any inherent advantage to doing so? If not, then why not stay at the Flamingo literally across the street for like a third of the price? We do not require our participants to stay at our hotel. I think people enjoy staying at the host hotel especially during March Madness in Las Vegas because folks gather and bet on games together, etc. But no, nobody is required to stay there and yes folks could very easily stay at the Flamingo and draft at the Bellagio. For football, Paris has rates at $99 and Bellagio is at $259, so folks can easily stay across the street and still draft with us. But I know what Jules is saying about the whole atmosphere and experience, but for years we heard the NFBC was down and dirty and wasn't as good as other live events and now it's too expensive. So it's a tough, fine line to walk.

Again, maybe next year our decision will be made for us because of how busy Las Vegas is. We'll see, but all feedback is good.

bjoak · Post by **bjoak** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:00 am

Originally posted by whipsaw:

Forgive me if these questions are a bit naive, I'm someone who has not attended a live NFBC event. Do you have to stay at the Bellagio to participate in the live draft? Is there any inherent advantage to doing so? If not, then why not stay at the Flamingo literally across the street for like a third of the price? I've hiked it down the street and I've stayed at the host hotel and it is far better to stay at the host hotel. Everyone is there; you come right down from the room and are at your draft. It is just way more comfortable.

That said, I won't pay an exorbitant price for it. You do the math: Events fee plus extra cost to stay at the Bellagio for three nights. I know there are some really wealthy individuals playing in these contests, but is it really worth $300 or more in extra fees to have your draft at the Belaggio rather than the Flamingo?

If you're in the Diamond League, I can see you saying, "What's the difference?" That is a small percentage of players. For everyone else, that money cuts into your possible profit margin if you win and it puts you even further into the red if you lose. In short, it makes the contest less enticing because there is less money to win (when you count your costs against it).

Gekko · Post by **Gekko** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:35 pm

staying at the host hotel is the only way to go. i'm probably more of a scrooge with my money than most people, so i'm always looking at costs though.

hopefully there will be some good deals for next year. would love to come out to vegas for baseball

Kimo · Post by **Kimo** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 2:54 pm

I really don't mind spending money on a hotel, but when the hotel is for Fantasy Sports, I just can't do it. One of the reasons I like Fantasy Sports is trying to make some money. So I try to keep my costs as low as possible. Here are some suggestions.

1. Rent a 4-5 bedroom house in Las Vegas for about 3000-350 a night, get 3-4 guys to split that and thats a cheaper way to go. For one week with 4 guys it would be about 300-400 dollars each. Plus I can't stand cigarrette smoke.

2.I did tis one year and it turned out to be ok. A buddy and I drove to Las Vegas in a car and we just stayed up as long as possibly could and finally we left the casinos, drove to a very quiet street, and slept in the car for a couple hours. In the morning we went to 24 Hour Fitness worked out, went swimming, took a shower then went to the draft.

Just a few suggestions for some of us who hate to spend money on hotels.

Edwards Kings · Post by **Edwards Kings** » Wed Aug 04, 2010 11:21 pm

I too have stayed in the host hotel, but I have also stay across the street, and off the strip (talking about my Vegas trips of course). I have also shared a room. All were good. Just a matter of preference, but I am there for the competition and except to sleep (or sleep it off), I am either in the competition, or in the poker room.

I did not stay at Bellagio, but enjoyed having the competition there. It was by far the classiest venue.

My only knock on Vegas (not that I recommend a change in venue) is overall the food has gone from a selling point to poor. I do not mean the eats (pizza and the like) provided at the events, but the food in general.

If anyone has found where you can get a decent breakfast (i.e. not pasteurized eggs and road-kill bacon), let me know!

whipsaw · Post by **whipsaw** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:44 am

Seems from what I've read here that there's a continuum of people coming to these events that are at odds with each other. At one end you have the profit grinders that view fantasy baseball as almost a second job, who would be happy to do high stakes drafts in the dingiest of basements in nowhereville because they loathe costs that eat into their ROI calculation. On the other end you have the fantasy baseball hobbyists that otherwise make some money and live comfortably with their other income that enjoy the gamble of a high stakes event, and really enjoy the camaraderie and social aspect of the draft itself even separate from the fantasy baseball season. These folks like, or at least don't mind, the costs of posher environs in which to draft (and sleep between drafts) because it's a big source of entertainment for them, and entertainment costs money. And probably most people fall somewhere in between but more towards one pole or the other.

My guess is that the NFBC should probably cater more towards the second group than the first for live events if their goal is to grow the event. Offer online for the sharks who can beat each other up but at rock bottom costs, and some will come to the live events where the leagues might be a bit softer but the costs higher. This is not at all unlike the poker calculation of live play vs. online.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:22 pm

Well put Whipsaw. Count me amongst the "baseball hobbyists" as you put it.

I look at the live event drafts as an experience. Anything that makes it more of an experience is alright by me.

When my wife and I go away on vacation, we always go for the upgraded rooms. When we go on a cruise, we go for the upgraded cabins. It's all part of the experience we look for. I look at High Stakes draft weekends the same way. If and when I finally make it out to Vegas, I'd hope that we're drafting at a Bellagio level hotel instead of the down & dirty.

If all I cared about was ROI, I'd have stayed with local leagues that provided 100% payouts and lousy competition.

Glenn