Carlos Quentin is an idiot

[BK METS]

Ok, when it is a 3-2 pitch, in a 1 run game, and you are hit, how can you logically think that the pitcher is throwing at you? I am not an owner of Greinke other than a few DC teams, but this whole event is just idiotic and coming from the guy who is hit by more pitches than anyone in MLB, to charge the mound in that situation is so dumb, its beyond words. I don't blame Matt Kemp actually confronting Quentin after the game, again, once he heard of the injury and I agree with Don Mattingly... Quentin should be suspended for as many games as Greinke is out.

The most ridiculous brawl I have ever seen... Greinke did nothing wrong.

[KJ Duke]

Alan - this is the third time Grienke had hit Quentin, the second time a few years ago looked very intentional, and Quentin clearly remembered that incident. That was probably in his head before the series even began.

In game one of the series Quentin was hit in the wrist. Early in last night's game a ball was thrown up and in to Kemp, so Quentin was probably on guard for a possible plunking from Greinke and ready to take it personally no matter the game situation. After he got hit and took a few steps towards the mound Greinke said something to him that he clearly did not like, after which he charged. First time in his career he charged a guy as the league leader in HBP ratio; don't blame him given the circumstances. For the fight itself, I didn't see any malice, don't think he even took a swing, just a charge and pulled him to the ground. It's just unfortunate for Greinke that he's built like a schoolteacher and picked a fight with a linebacker.

I saw the Mattingly post-game response, which was every bit an emotional response equal to or greater than Quentin's charging the mound, repeatedly calling Quentin stupid/idiot with no knowledge of the game ... fact is, Mattingly had no knowledge of the history and has probably half the IQ of Quentin if we're going to start making comparisons in the "stupid" department. If Greinke doesn't get hurt, his post-game comments probably would have been, "well that's baseball".

However, I have no problem with Kemp trying to protect his teammate.

In order of guilt, my ranking would be:
1) Mattingly for inflaming the situation before understanding it.
2) Greinke for intentionally hitting Quentin out of frustration a couple years ago.
3) Greinke for challenging someone with a clearly superior physical build.
4) Greinke in going for the Q's balls, as seen in some post-fight photos.

... and now I wait for the obligatory call for stiffer suspensions and t-ball-like rule changes because a high salary pitcher got hurt. So I will offer a pre-emptive rebuttal to that too. Far more batters get hurt and miss time than do pitchers, and batters have but one alternative to protect themselves (other than leaving retaliation to their teammates) - charge the mound. Don't screw with that balance of power! Secondly, the suspensions are clearly tipped in favor of pitchers - a typical 6-game pitcher suspension means no lost time for a starter and a 1-day push back for his start, whereas hitters obviously miss every suspended game. Please cut and paste above to your favorite wus-media writer as their "outrage" builds.

[headhunters]

well geez kj- far more hitters get hurt than pitchers? well gee wizz- there are more batters than pitchers to start with and ya the pitchers are throwing the ball and if you get hit with it you get hurt. is that a new one?. you of all people- drysdale gibson nolan ryan- on and on. they threw at hitters- zero and i mean zero chance grenkie threw at quentin last night- zero. it was a pitch maybe- maybe 2 inches inside. quenton let it hit hit him and then got mad because grenkie said something to him. so if i say something to someone and they don't like it- they can attack me? please- the logic here escapes me.

[KJ Duke]

well geez kj- far more hitters get hurt than pitchers? well gee wizz- there are more batters than pitchers to start with and ya the pitchers are throwing the ball and if you get hit with it you get hurt. is that a new one?. you of all people- drysdale gibson nolan ryan- on and on. they threw at hitters- zero and i mean zero chance grenkie threw at quentin last night- zero. it was a pitch maybe- maybe 2 inches inside. quenton let it hit hit him and then got mad because grenkie said something to him.

Yeah, all those pitchers threw at hitters, and sometimes there were fights. Is that not part of the game all of a sudden after a hundred years?

so if i say something to someone and they don't like it- they can attack me? please- the logic here escapes me.

I think the logic is quite clear. If someone throws at me on purpose and I let it pass once, they may not get the benefit of doubt next time around.

[PGromek]

instead of dropping his shoulder, Greinke should have pulled a Nolan Ryan and gone for the headlock and noogie

[Navel Lint]

Alan - this is the third time Grienke had hit Quentin, the second time a few years ago looked very intentional, and Quentin clearly remembered that incident. That was probably in his head before the series even began.

In game one of the series Quentin was hit in the wrist. Early in last night's game a ball was thrown up and in to Kemp, so Quentin was probably on guard for a possible plunking from Greinke and ready to take it personally no matter the game situation. After he got hit and took a few steps towards the mound Greinke said something to him that he clearly did not like, after which he charged. First time in his career he charged a guy as the league leader in HBP ratio; don't blame him given the circumstances. For the fight itself, I didn't see any malice, don't think he even took a swing, just a charge and pulled him to the ground. It's just unfortunate for Greinke that he's built like a schoolteacher and picked a fight with a linebacker.

I saw the Mattingly post-game response, which was every bit an emotional response equal to or greater than Quentin's charging the mound, repeatedly calling Quentin stupid/idiot with no knowledge of the game ... fact is, Mattingly had no knowledge of the history and has probably half the IQ of Quentin if we're going to start making comparisons in the "stupid" department. If Greinke doesn't get hurt, his post-game comments probably would have been, "well that's baseball".

However, I have no problem with Kemp trying to protect his teammate.

In order of guilt, my ranking would be:
1) Mattingly for inflaming the situation before understanding it.
2) Greinke for intentionally hitting Quentin out of frustration a couple years ago.
3) Greinke for challenging someone with a clearly superior physical build.
4) Greinke in going for the Q's balls, as seen in some post-fight photos.

Sounds like your conversion from Cubs fan to San Diego Padres season ticket holder and loyal fan is now complete

[rockitsauce]

There is history here. You'd have to be an IDIOT not to notice that.

from mlb - In that 2009 game, Quentin was brushed back by a pitch that, according to reports, came close to hitting him in the head. Later in the game, Greinke hit him squarely in the back with a pitch.


Check the video. Greinke approaches the batters box, smirks and starts shooting his mouth off and some of you blame Quentin ? I'm assuming you've never actually played baseball. Have you ever had a fastball whistle past your ear ?

And zero chance he did it on purpose??? Bullshit. None of us will ever know, but my guess is Greinke figured why not ? Quentin's got the power to tie up the score w/ one swing and he's taken him deep a few times before. So why not ? He gets the next guy out and he gets away w/ it...again.

Too bad. Maybe he'll think twice next time.

[BK METS]

Why throw at him with a 3-2 pitch, makes no sense. If I was pitching, and if someone took a few steps to the mound towards me, in that situation.. I would be smirking too... saying, "why would I throw at you intentionally?" I suppose if Greinke was throwing at him intentionally, that would make HIM the idiot... I guess we will never know.

And Quentin apparently has a "history" with over 100 other pitchers hitting him... so its hard to bring up "history". Greinke has a habit of throwing inside.. its part of his game. (46 players HBP)... So, with the combination of a guy hitting a lot of batters and a guy getting hit by a lot of pitches, obviously their paths are going to cross..

David, I suppose this makes me an idiot as well, to make an obvious observation shared by many.

[KJ Duke]

Tensions are going to be sky high for next week's series because of the injury and Mattingly fanning the flame. It will be interesting to watch - I hope no one else gets hurt, but brace yourself if you own any padres or dodgers.

[Brock]

Hitters don't get drilled on 3-2 pitches on purpose. If Greinke's intent was to hit CQ he would've done it on the 1st pitch. That being said after Grienke drills CQ and CQ glares at him instead of saying my bad or it got away he starts talking shit to him. As far as I'm concerned and I have no dog in this fight good for CQ for charging the mound. I believe CQ went to Stanford so very little chance he's dumb. Stay tuned because these two teams meet in LA for a three game series starting Monday. Quentin most likely will be serving his suspension by then but expect the hard feelings to linger.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Usually tend to agree with KJ but he is way off on this one IMO. For starters, while Quentin might be smarter than Mattingly in general, he clearly isn't in this instance. Deep down he even knew that he wasn't being thrown at. Greinke blurted out as much to him and then he charged. That is idiotic.

Quentin also is begging to be hit the way he lunges at the end towards the plate. It is not the type of batting approach that makes it easy to dodge those types of pitches.

It is idiotic to think that he was trying to hit him. And you call him smart for thinking so? Absurd. Whole situation will be overblown because he got hurt. I agree with you there. But as for whose fault it was, it is only on Quentin. Just a completely idiotic overreaction due to the batting approach he chooses. He is going to get hit if he uses that approach. Deal with it. And the fact he even knew it and still charged makes him the only bad guy in this story. Complete idiot. No way he is smarter than anyone in this instance, let along Mattingly.

[KJ Duke]

Chad, this was retaliation for a previous obviously intentional hit, last night's intent (or not) was almost inconsequential - although it's clear Greinke's body language or comment was the final straw. If a pitcher hits a guy on purpose one time (and Quentin was probably more pissed after seeing it on tape and seeing how obviously intentional it was), you'd better expect to be on guard next time around as a pitcher if you hit that guy again.

Like I said, the prime idiot is Mattingly for practically ensuring another round in this battle that could be worse than the first one because of his post-game comments to the press, and no doubt the words were probably even stronger behind close doors.

[BK METS]

Chad, this was retaliation for a previous obviously intentional hit, last night's intent (or not) was almost inconsequential - although it's clear Greinke's body language or comment was the final straw. If a pitcher hits a guy on purpose one time (and Quentin was probably more pissed after seeing it on tape and seeing how obviously intentional it was), you'd better expect to be on guard next time around as a pitcher if you hit that guy again.

Like I said, the prime idiot is Mattingly for practically ensuring another round in this battle that could be worse than the first one because of his post-game comments to the press, and no doubt the words were probably even stronger behind close doors.

When you lose one of your most important players to a serious injury forced by the other team, emotions are going to be high. I am sure Mattingly regrets some of the things he said at the heat of the moment. I am not defending what he said. Just saying that he was obviously extremely upset with losing Greinke for a long time.

[Edwards Kings]

Silver lining for Greinke...at least it wasn't Jorge Soler he hit!

Still, I hope Quentin catches a host of penicillin resistant social diseases.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I will put blame on Mattingly if and when it does escalate. Until then, I only see one person to blame. Quentin. He was not being intentionally thrown out, he even knew it, and he still charged.

Chad, this was retaliation for a previous obviously intentional hit, last night's intent (or not) was almost inconsequential - although it's clear Greinke's body language or comment was the final straw. If a pitcher hits a guy on purpose one time (and Quentin was probably more pissed after seeing it on tape and seeing how obviously intentional it was), you'd better expect to be on guard next time around as a pitcher if you hit that guy again.

Like I said, the prime idiot is Mattingly for practically ensuring another round in this battle that could be worse than the first one because of his post-game comments to the press, and no doubt the words were probably even stronger behind close doors.

[Hells Satans]

Meh. Hundreds of players have charged the mound over the last 10-20 years, including many Dodger players and Don Mattingly teammates. Quentin is no more or less stupid than any of them and this is no more egregious and act than any of the other times it happens. This time someone got hurt but that doesn't really make it any different than any other time.

Also, it's pretty clear that Quentin's actions were triggered by something Greinke said or did after he hit him. Quentin didn't appear to be looking to charge him at first.

Really just a big whatever to me.

[rockitsauce]

Chase Utley gets hit alot too. He has a similar approach at the plate as Quentin. Chase, like Quentin, will take his base after being hit 99 times out of 100. The one time I suspect there would be trouble is if Jonathan Sanchez is on the mound.

Quentin's Sanchez is Greinke. They don't like each other. The fact that Quentin had never charged the mound before I think speaks to that.

[KJ Duke]

I will put blame on Mattingly if and when it does escalate. Until then, I only see one person to blame. Quentin. He was not being intentionally thrown out, he even knew it, and he still charged.

I suppose our only disagreement then is whether or not a history with another player means anything. If I put myself in Quentin's position as a player, I probably do the same thing. When I played, I remembered how guys played against me and my team, and if they crossed the line enough in a previous game to stick in my memory there was zero benefit of the doubt next time.

If history doesn't count for anything, the Dodgers should have nothing to be upset about next week when they play the Padres if, for example, Matt Kemp gets hit by a pitch on a 3-2 count in a 1-run game. Anyone want to put odds on the likelihood that Kemp charges the mound in that situation? I wouldn't consider him an idiot for doing it, and I don't think Mattingly would either.

[BK METS]

I will put blame on Mattingly if and when it does escalate. Until then, I only see one person to blame. Quentin. He was not being intentionally thrown out, he even knew it, and he still charged.

I suppose our only disagreement then is whether or not a history with another player means anything. If I put myself in Quentin's position as a player, I probably do the same thing. When I played, I remembered how guys played against me and my team, and if they crossed the line enough in a previous game to stick in my memory there was zero benefit of the doubt next time.

If history doesn't count for anything, the Dodgers should have nothing to be upset about next week when they play the Padres if, for example, Matt Kemp gets hit by a pitch on a 3-2 count in a 1-run game. Anyone want to put odds on the likelihood that Kemp charges the mound in that situation? I wouldn't consider him an idiot for doing it, and I don't think Mattingly would either.

If Matt Kemp charges the mound after being hit on a 3-2 pitch in a 1-run game, he's an idiot too. To me, its all about intent. If the Padres are going to throw at him, it won't be in that circumstance.

[KJ Duke]

I will put blame on Mattingly if and when it does escalate. Until then, I only see one person to blame. Quentin. He was not being intentionally thrown out, he even knew it, and he still charged.

I suppose our only disagreement then is whether or not a history with another player means anything. If I put myself in Quentin's position as a player, I probably do the same thing. When I played, I remembered how guys played against me and my team, and if they crossed the line enough in a previous game to stick in my memory there was zero benefit of the doubt next time.

If history doesn't count for anything, the Dodgers should have nothing to be upset about next week when they play the Padres if, for example, Matt Kemp gets hit by a pitch on a 3-2 count in a 1-run game. Anyone want to put odds on the likelihood that Kemp charges the mound in that situation? I wouldn't consider him an idiot for doing it, and I don't think Mattingly would either.

If Matt Kemp charges the mound after being hit on a 3-2 pitch in a 1-run game, he's an idiot too. To me, its all about intent. If the Padres are going to throw at him, it won't be in that circumstance.

If I'm Bud Black or the pitcher, and I wanted to retaliate, that's EXACTLY when I'd do it. It would make a pretty awesome point, wouldn't it?

[mlbbug]

The following info is not in support or condemnation of Quentin. As Joe Friday used to say on Dragnet: "just the facts". Not including the 2 times that he's been hit this year, Quentin has been hit 95 times going back to 2008....that's an average of 19 times a year for the last 5 years! Here is the breakdown for those years: '08-20; '09-15; '10-20; '11-23; '12-17. He is also #7 all-time among active players with 116 HBP( behind Giambi-175; A-Rod-167; Jeter-163; Utley-151; M.Tejada-121; Reed Johnson-120).Reed Johnson?
Like I said ,just the facts here. Draw your own conclusions from the data.However, one thing is clear,Quentin gets hit a lot,especially the last 5 years.

[BK METS]

8 game suspension.... well deserved, but likely appealed and probably reduced

[Outlaw]

As cal ripkin said today, when you get hit by pitch high, first off it hurts a lot, and the body immedialtey reacts in defensive mode and the emtotions immediatley intensify, all body reaction. If you throw in the pitcher saying anything or reacting a certain way liek pointing a finger, the hit batter is steal dealing with the pain. If you then throw in, the hit batter has past history witth the pitcher, it adds even more emotion for the batter. Bottom line he said he knew when he was hit on purpose and eveyr batter that gets hit knows whether it was on purpose or not. And not hitter usually allows to happen again, other wise word gets around. so Bascially Cal was defending Quentin on this one. I woudd think Mattinlgy knows all that stuff too as he was the consumate pro in his time. As a manger, he has to say stuff like that now. He probaly regrets some of his words now.

It's all part of the game....and always will be... and if you've never been plunked by a 90 MPH heater, even a 60 MPH one, it hurts....

[rockitsauce]

Something lost in all this is the stupidity of baseballs' unwritten rules. In the 1st inning on an 0-2 pitch Marquis threw a pitch up and in to Kemp. Scully mentioned this when the brawl broke out as possible retaliation for that pitch. This stupid you hit our guy or nearly do, so I hafta throw at one of your guys is why these feuds happen and fester longer than a Hatfield/McCoy reunion.

We've already established the history b/w CQ & Greinke. That and Greinke shootin' his mouth off are why this got escalated. They say Quentin crowds the plate, but did anyone here actually watch the game? That wasn't no lean-in job, that pitch was so far inside he woulda had to be Houdini to avoid being hit.


These umpires are so horrible you're basically compelled to crowd the plate to some degree. Did anyone see Zobrist get rung up the other day ? That pitch was at least a ft off the plate and Pierzinski had to catch it w/ his glove down in the dirt. Tonight Miggy Montero endured a similar experience as he was called out on a pitch just as far outside, just not in the dirt. Horrible. I didn't need the little strikezone box to confirm what I already knew, those were NOT strikes. W/ umpiring like that I'd move in abit to guard the outer half of the plate too. Who determined that pitchers owned the inner half anyway?

Now w/ the Reyes injury we can move on to something new. Who thinks 2B should be suspended as long as Reyes is out

YAY Josh Donaldson !

[gpchurchill]

Something lost in all this is the stupidity of baseballs' unwritten rules. In the 1st inning on an 0-2 pitch Marquis threw a pitch up and in to Kemp. Scully mentioned this when the brawl broke out as possible retaliation for that pitch. This stupid you hit our guy or nearly do, so I hafta throw at one of your guys is why these feuds happen and fester longer than a Hatfield/McCoy reunion.

We've already established the history b/w CQ & Greinke. That and Greinke shootin' his mouth off are why this got escalated. They say Quentin crowds the plate, but did anyone here actually watch the game? That wasn't no lean-in job, that pitch was so far inside he woulda had to be Houdini to avoid being hit.


These umpires are so horrible you're basically compelled to crowd the plate to some degree. Did anyone see Zobrist get rung up the other day ? That pitch was at least a ft off the plate and Pierzinski had to catch it w/ his glove down in the dirt. Tonight Miggy Montero endured a similar experience as he was called out on a pitch just as far outside, just not in the dirt. Horrible. I didn't need the little strikezone box to confirm what I already knew, those were NOT strikes. W/ umpiring like that I'd move in abit to guard the outer half of the plate too. Who determined that pitchers owned the inner half anyway?

Now w/ the Reyes injury we can move on to something new. Who thinks 2B should be suspended as long as Reyes is out

YAY Josh Donaldson !

The pitch was just bit inside.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/carlos-q ... -hbp-zone/

Quentin does not like getting pitched inside by greinke. Greinke does not like the way Quentin crowds the plate. Nothing really unusual about that. Will Quentin charge again the next time greinke plunks him? Doubt it.