Possible NFBC Cutline Championship In 2014

[KJ Duke]

We set lineups in cutline so I do not see why would not in baseball cutline. I am okay with what Steve proposed with thirty rounds (or maybe 35) with three FAAB along the way. With only 10 teams many teams will be deep and stacked anyways. Just my two cents.

Jeff

Again, I'm cool with that over Best Ball and it makes it easier on us with the Roto setup. But remember, Steve's suggestion is starting ALL 30 of your players, so you really wouldn't be setting any lineup. He's saying your entire roster scores for you each week, which is pretty unique and could be fun.

Do you like that setup?

My take on this Greg is that it's NOT like the rotisserie style game we currently play. FAAB, roster decisions, etc is a big part of the season longs. This new cutline should be played fast and loose. Will it be a healthiest teams wins in all play ? Maybe but with 1 FAAB and cutline it WON'T be a massive stat accumulating only contest. Maybe the last 3 weeks of cutline you eliminate the all play and cut it down to roster managed.

Do we really want to be "managing" these $150 teams while we have Ultimates and ME and Diamonds and Supers to manage also ??? Just keep it simple. Make it a "lottery ticket" type contest. Make it so you want 10 and watch from the sidelines instead of drafting one and managing it like a ME.

Steve, I agree 100% on setting lineups - I don't want the distraction for a low-stakes entry fee. But the best ball concept with a standard starting lineup involves no roster decisions, same as football ... what's the thinking behind having stats from the entire roster count?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Look at all of these great minds with varying opinions. I think I've opened a hornet's nest!!

We definitely aren't doing two different new contests to appease new owners and NFBC owners. One new game can certainly be created like we did with the NFFC Cutline Championship to appeal to both groups. We just have to figure it out first. It is much more difficult in baseball, as we already knew, because Roto is so popular and rosters are bigger and drafts are longer. We created the quick, easy draft game in football and it was well accepted. I love the NFFC Cutline Championship.

I know we can do it in baseball, too. Let's vett this out and make it work. The first step is the scoring setup, roster size and in-season management. How much and how little do we want that to change from our original game?? And can we make it appealing enough for new players and our current players?

[Greg Ambrosius]

Here's our playoff format in football, which allows 5 of 10 teams to play in the post-season with three teams in a consolation bracket called the Wild Card Bracket. Teams there can still find a way to win the grand prize and that's something we should incorporate here along with a Wild Card prize structure. During those Cutline weeks we'd eliminate more teams from the Wild Card bracket than we do here in football, but it makes sense to keep more teams playing beyond the All-Star break. I can add this later, but here's how we do it in football:

Official Rules and Regulations of the National Fantasy Football Cutline Championship

1. Overview

The National Fantasy Football Championship (NFFC) Cutline Championship is a national contest that consists of leagues comprised of 10 teams/managers. The NFFC Cutline Championship regular season will begin with all Week 1 NFL games (including results from the Thursday, Sept. 5th game) and through all Week 9 games. Teams will play every other team in their league once in head-to-head competition and the team with the most points after Week 9 wins the $250 league prize.

The top 2 teams from each league based on the criteria below qualify for the Championship bracket in Weeks 10-12 of the Cutline Championship:
1st - Most points scored
2nd - best head-to-head record (total points being the tie-breaker)

Three other teams move to the Wild Card bracket for Weeks 10-12:
3rd - Best head-to-head record among remaining teams (total points being the tie-breaker)
4th - Most points among remaining teams
5th - Most points among remaining teams

Round 1: Weeks 10-12 (scores combined for those 3 weeks + weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9)

The top 25% scoring Championship bracket teams after Week 12 advance to Week 13 (top 100 teams if we had 400 Championship Round teams based on 2,000 total teams); all other teams from the Championship bracket move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 10 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 100 advance in the Wild Card bracket. All other teams in the Wild Card bracket are finished.

Round 2: Week 13 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 13)

The top 60 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; all other teams move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 5 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 60 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Round 3: Week 14 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 14)

The top 30 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; all others move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 3 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 30 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Round 4: Week 15 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 15)

The top 11 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; the next 10 in scoring advance to the Wild Card bracket.
The top scoring (1) Wild Card team moves up to the Championship bracket; the next 10 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Final Round: Week 16 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 16)

12 teams compete in the Championship bracket
20 teams compete in the Wild Card bracket

[KJ Duke]

The baseball season is so long, I don't mind having the bad teams being put out of their misery. I can see the argument for a consolation round as it matches up nicely with the football contest, but don't think it's necessary ... it will, however, create a lot more work for your programmers.

[Quahogs]

After to disagree with my some time partner. I think all play format is not a great idea for baseball, in my humble opinion. As for all of that "time consuming" work, I am not sure that setting a lineup every Monday for a Cutline team constitutes "time consuming" !!

It is if you take down 10 teams. Which is what you want from some players to make this a go.

[DOUGHBOYS]

The new player is not going to be thinking about Diamonds, Main Events, etc.
Give them what they want, not what we want.
I know the premise is to combine this contest into the new and old playing, that could happen, but the main purpose should be to capture the new player.
We already have a lot of toys to play with.
Taking away lineups and making less FAAB and making whole rosters count are merely saving time devices for players with more important teams.
Whereas the player new to the NFBC, after possibly playing free games and winning those, could make this his most important team and thrive with lineups and FAAB.

[BK METS]

Here's our playoff format in football, which allows 5 of 10 teams to play in the post-season with three teams in a consolation bracket called the Wild Card Bracket. Teams there can still find a way to win the grand prize and that's something we should incorporate here along with a Wild Card prize structure. During those Cutline weeks we'd eliminate more teams from the Wild Card bracket than we do here in football, but it makes sense to keep more teams playing beyond the All-Star break. I can add this later, but here's how we do it in football:

Official Rules and Regulations of the National Fantasy Football Cutline Championship

1. Overview

The National Fantasy Football Championship (NFFC) Cutline Championship is a national contest that consists of leagues comprised of 10 teams/managers. The NFFC Cutline Championship regular season will begin with all Week 1 NFL games (including results from the Thursday, Sept. 5th game) and through all Week 9 games. Teams will play every other team in their league once in head-to-head competition and the team with the most points after Week 9 wins the $250 league prize.

The top 2 teams from each league based on the criteria below qualify for the Championship bracket in Weeks 10-12 of the Cutline Championship:
1st - Most points scored
2nd - best head-to-head record (total points being the tie-breaker)

Three other teams move to the Wild Card bracket for Weeks 10-12:
3rd - Best head-to-head record among remaining teams (total points being the tie-breaker)
4th - Most points among remaining teams
5th - Most points among remaining teams

Round 1: Weeks 10-12 (scores combined for those 3 weeks + weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9)

The top 25% scoring Championship bracket teams after Week 12 advance to Week 13 (top 100 teams if we had 400 Championship Round teams based on 2,000 total teams); all other teams from the Championship bracket move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 10 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 100 advance in the Wild Card bracket. All other teams in the Wild Card bracket are finished.

Round 2: Week 13 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 13)

The top 60 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; all other teams move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 5 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 60 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Round 3: Week 14 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 14)

The top 30 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; all others move to the Wild Card bracket.
The top 3 scoring Wild Card teams move up to the Championship bracket; the next 30 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Round 4: Week 15 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 15)

The top 11 scoring Championship bracket teams advance; the next 10 in scoring advance to the Wild Card bracket.
The top scoring (1) Wild Card team moves up to the Championship bracket; the next 10 advance in the Wild Card bracket.

Final Round: Week 16 (take each team’s weekly scoring average from Weeks 1-9, plus weekly playoff scoring average, plus your score from Week 16)

12 teams compete in the Championship bracket
20 teams compete in the Wild Card bracket

Once again, in my opinion... the reason why Football cutline works is, it is really not a whole lot different than regular fantasy football. It appeals to the outsider since it has a small entry fee, large grand prize, and lower team maintenance, while still playing the game they understand and love. I think we are making this new concept too complicated, for the new guy, by having a whole new points scoring concept that isn't the H2H or Roto, they are playing now. If we are really appealing to the ESPN/CBS player, it needs to be simplified. I don't have a problem with the 10 team leagues and a cutline playoff.. I think that part is a great idea and will be appealing to both us novices and the pros over at ESPN.... !

[KJ Duke]

The new player is not going to be thinking about Diamonds, Main Events, etc.
Give them what they want, not what we want.
I know the premise is to combine this contest into the new and old playing, that could happen, but the main purpose should be to capture the new player.
We already have a lot of toys to play with.
Taking away lineups and making less FAAB and making whole rosters count are merely saving time devices for players with more important teams.
Whereas the player new to the NFBC, after possibly playing free games and winning those, could make this his most important team and thrive with lineups and FAAB.

I disagree Dough, that doesn't happen often! You're going to need a base of NFBC players to get this off the ground unless you want to lose money for 3 years. I also don't see the point in designing a game for new players that is just like one they already have ... you need something different, but with familiarity to entice. Same goes for the NFBC player, otherwise you're just cannibalizing the DC leagues.

[Quahogs]

Again, I'm cool with that over Best Ball and it makes it easier on us with the Roto setup. But remember, Steve's suggestion is starting ALL 30 of your players, so you really wouldn't be setting any lineup. He's saying your entire roster scores for you each week, which is pretty unique and could be fun.

Do you like that setup?

My take on this Greg is that it's NOT like the rotisserie style game we currently play. FAAB, roster decisions, etc is a big part of the season longs. This new cutline should be played fast and loose. Will it be a healthiest teams wins in all play ? Maybe but with 1 FAAB and cutline it WON'T be a massive stat accumulating only contest. Maybe the last 3 weeks of cutline you eliminate the all play and cut it down to roster managed.

Do we really want to be "managing" these $150 teams while we have Ultimates and ME and Diamonds and Supers to manage also ??? Just keep it simple. Make it a "lottery ticket" type contest. Make it so you want 10 and watch from the sidelines instead of drafting one and managing it like a ME.

Steve, I agree 100% on setting lineups - I don't want the distraction for a low-stakes entry fee. But the best ball concept with a standard starting lineup involves no roster decisions, same as football ... what's the thinking behind having stats from the entire roster count?

KJ I'm cool with the best ball concept. From a programming standpoint I thought ALL-PLAY would be easier to put together. I've had something like this on my mind for years but my thinking was long the line of rotisserie style. Best ball wouldn't work with Roto style. A points game changes that now.

[DOUGHBOYS]

The new player is not going to be thinking about Diamonds, Main Events, etc.
Give them what they want, not what we want.
I know the premise is to combine this contest into the new and old playing, that could happen, but the main purpose should be to capture the new player.
We already have a lot of toys to play with.
Taking away lineups and making less FAAB and making whole rosters count are merely saving time devices for players with more important teams.
Whereas the player new to the NFBC, after possibly playing free games and winning those, could make this his most important team and thrive with lineups and FAAB.

I disagree Dough, that doesn't happen often! You're going to need a base of NFBC players to get this off the ground unless you want to lose money for 3 years. I also don't see the point in designing a game for new players that is just like one they already have ... you need something different, but with familiarity to entice. Same goes for the NFBC player, otherwise you're just cannibalizing the DC leagues.

Cool! Disagreeing is so much more fun than agreeing.
The way I look at it is that Greg has for the most part, tapped out the NFBC player. Maybe not money-wise, but team-wise. They have enough teams to deal with.
And, they're far more important teams.
As laid out, and I could be wrong, I do not think a lot of NFBC players will be enticed. So far, I'm not.
10 teams alone makes it a luck based game. Throw in the elements of less lineups without FAAB only makes it less skill-driven. Especially when later weeks are more important to the big prize.
And before the arguments rain down on me about 50 rounders being popular, that is a whole different concept, and with 15 teams.

There is a natural roto and points divide that needs to be the first hurdle cleared.
If the computer can do it, maybe both concepts can be used, sorta like head to head and total points co-existing in football.
We can see where we stand in both set of standings, highest teams move forward.

[KJ Duke]

I think it has to be low-maintenance, Dough, and I agree with you about most guys being tapped-out time-wise and league-count-wise. That's why it could work, and maybe it's the only "new" type of thing that could work with the existing base.

Almost everyone I talk to wants to reduce the number of leagues they compete in, but ......... it's hard for all of us to cut back because drafting is so much fun. Thus, cutline can be a nicotine patch for our draft addition without the nasty long-term side effect of trying to manage too many teams.

Also, I don't believe this format becomes luck-based over skill-based, but it clearly leans draft skill over managing skill.

[Brock]

I enjoyed reading everyones comments and have the utmost respect for the guys posting them. I can't for the life of me understand how a 10 team points game with a system of limited management is a method of fostering new players for the games we enjoy now. Setting lineups and weekly FAAB are core elements to the NFBC. I'm a relatively new player and I would have never been attracted to a points format. Some folks might enjoy it but IMHO it is in no way an introduction to the NFBC. Maybe a 10 team version of the online game with lower price points and prize money would be a better product. Best of luck to everyone and looking forward to seeing everyone in NYC next March.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I think it has to be low-maintenance, Dough, and I agree with you about most guys being tapped-out time-wise and league-count-wise. That's why it could work, and maybe it's the only "new" type of thing that could work with the existing base.

Almost everyone I talk to wants to reduce the number of leagues they compete in, but ......... it's hard for all of us to cut back because drafting is so much fun. Thus, cutline can be a nicotine patch for our draft addition without the nasty long-term side effect of trying to manage too many teams.

Also, I don't believe this format becomes luck-based over skill-based, but it clearly leans draft skill over managing skill.

It's certainly a tough sell. No matter the rules, getting NFBC vets to add teams of this genre will be particularly difficult.
This is why every idea in this format should be with the newer player in mind.
The 50 rounders are our nicotine patch already, plus it adds in our study for the larger events down the line.
This is a lotto ticket.
The roto/points idea would be good for both the new entrant and veteran NFBC player. We're all familiar with one or the other and puts us on an even keel.
May as well use both to entice.

[KJ Duke]

The 50 rounders are our nicotine patch already, plus it adds in our study for the larger events down the line.

I may be in the minority, but I find even a couple 50-rounders to be too much to manage. I agree completely with whoever posted about the time it takes to scroll thru 50-players twice a week in trying to decide who to start.

I just want to draft teams, see where players are going and have a lottery ticket with which to leverage my NFBC prep.

[Navel Lint]

My questions:


- Why have 3-week playoff rounds before cuts are made? Why not each week?

You would like cutlines each week of the playoffs?? We just felt it wasn't a long enough body of work to know which team was strongest in the playoffs. You might not get enough starts from your top pitchers to win in any given week. Three weeks seemed like a longer test of strength. Is that too long? Are there too few cutlines?

Thanks for the input so far.

Totally agree with you Greg. Three weeks will eliminate almost all of the randomness of the MLB schedule (days off that is) and gives everyone a chance to get plenty of pitching starts

[Money]

I hang out at a couple of places that have many sports fans and fantasy sports players. There are multiple football leagues at each and 1 baseball league at each run through the typical sites. Almost every guy that loves football would love to play baseball. The time commitment to them is intimidating. A lot of the local baseball leagues have daily moves and these guys are one and done. This needs to be kept as simple as possible if you want to attract those players that want a stake in the game all summer long without feeling like they have to do daily research to stay competitive.

The scoring format will be irrelevant, giving these players some relatively effortless action will be the key to attracting the masses.

[KJ Duke]

I hang out at a couple of places that have many sports fans and fantasy sports players. There are multiple football leagues at each and 1 baseball league at each run through the typical sites. Almost every guy that loves football would love to play baseball. The time commitment to them is intimidating. A lot of the local baseball leagues have daily moves and these guys are one and done. This needs to be kept as simple as possible if you want to attract those players that want a stake in the game all summer long without feeling like they have to do daily research to stay competitive.

The scoring format will be irrelevant, giving these players some relatively effortless action will be the key to attracting the masses.

I agree with Joe, how did that happen?

[Glenneration X]

I was initially turned off by the points concept. I immediately thought of the H2H points games that I do not enjoy. However after reading the rules again and all the followup posts in this thread, I'm now for the format as proposed (with some minor tweaks).

As Juprinka pointed out, this resembles the daily games more than those ESPN H2H leagues and those daily game formats are ones that I've played and enjoyed this past year.

As far as attracting the new player to our game, the cross promotion possibilities with the daily games could provide access to a huge pool of new players who already play a points style game that can be tapped into. The NFBC already cross promotes with the biggest daily game provider in Fanduel. Get some of those players to play this Cutline contest and the possibilities could be real promising for growth here.

[DOUGHBOYS]

I hang out at a couple of places that have many sports fans and fantasy sports players. There are multiple football leagues at each and 1 baseball league at each run through the typical sites. Almost every guy that loves football would love to play baseball. The time commitment to them is intimidating. A lot of the local baseball leagues have daily moves and these guys are one and done. This needs to be kept as simple as possible if you want to attract those players that want a stake in the game all summer long without feeling like they have to do daily research to stay competitive.

The scoring format will be irrelevant, giving these players some relatively effortless action will be the key to attracting the masses.

I agree with Joe, how did that happen?

Clearly, you are on the wrong side of the argument!

[DOUGHBOYS]

I was initially turned off by the points concept. I immediately thought of the H2H points games that I do not enjoy. However after reading the rules again and all the followup posts in this thread, I'm now for the format as proposed (with some minor tweaks).

As Juprinka pointed out, this resembles the daily games more than those ESPN H2H leagues and those daily game formats are ones that I've played and enjoyed this past year.

As far as attracting the new player to our game, the cross promotion possibilities with the daily games could provide access to a huge pool of new players who already play a points style game that can be tapped into. The NFBC already cross promotes with the biggest daily game provider in Fanduel. Get some of those players to play this Cutline contest and the possibilities could be real promising for growth here.

I agree with Glenn.

[KJ Duke]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

[Money]

I hang out at a couple of places that have many sports fans and fantasy sports players. There are multiple football leagues at each and 1 baseball league at each run through the typical sites. Almost every guy that loves football would love to play baseball. The time commitment to them is intimidating. A lot of the local baseball leagues have daily moves and these guys are one and done. This needs to be kept as simple as possible if you want to attract those players that want a stake in the game all summer long without feeling like they have to do daily research to stay competitive.

The scoring format will be irrelevant, giving these players some relatively effortless action will be the key to attracting the masses.

I agree with Joe, how did that happen?

Clearly, you are on the wrong side of the argument!

This is known as the dark side, not the wrong side, Dan.

[DOUGHBOYS]

Just funnin', of course Joe, you're one of the best!

[Glenneration X]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

Won't work. You'd have players going all in for their entire 1000 FAAB on the Puig's of the world. You need an incentive to save some FAAB for later dates and by that I mean by having later FAAB dates.

[DOUGHBOYS]

The tweak I like is Juprinka's cutting back to only 1 FAAB.

Won't work. You'd have players going all in for their entire 1000 FAAB on the Puig's of the world. You need an incentive to save some FAAB for later dates and by that I mean by having later FAAB dates.

Again, agree with Glenn. Three FAABs spread out would be of help to many teams. A one time FAAB can be timing friendly for some teams, not others.
Not to mention the logjam of Puig types that Glenn mentioned.